Your eyes can deceive you...

[CRMcNeill]

From a gaming perspective, a character attempting a critical roll (such as hitting a thermal exhaust port with a proton torpedo) would want to maximize their roll as much as possible. As such, deliberately shutting off the targeting computer results in increased difficulty, which must in turn be offset by a bonus from Force skills. Is it possible that attempting to combine equipment bonuses with Force bonuses actually has a detrimental effect? That attempting to simultaneously depend on both the Force and one's own eyes actually penalizes the roll? If so, what form would this take?

Thoughts?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[atgxtg]

My thought is that when a character is usuing the Force that way, he isn't using the targeting computer. So he doesn't get tto stack the bonuses. Yeah, the RPG rules are written that way, but that seems to be what is happening in the films.

It's like someone who uses Kyujutsu (Japanese style archery) adding a scope to their bow. Since in Kyu the arrow is draw above the shooter's head, he doesn't aim the way western style archers do (by sighting down the arrow).


Frankly, I think the RAW has it wrong. Rather than getting a flat bonus, what I think the Jedi should be able to do is replace his ship's Fire Control with the Sense.

But then, Luke's Sense skill wasn't that high according to the RAW.

[CRMcNeill]

[Random_Axe]

I think you would be making a mistake to try to judge Luke's final torpedo shot at the Death Star in actual RPG dice numerics. Especially considering Luke was a total N00b when it came to the Force. Luke's shot was cinematic GM fiat, and that's it. A dramatic moment executed at the peak battle moment; if I were the GM I would totally ditch the dice rolling at that moment because it's going to tell a story about Luke's coming of age.

Now, if you have actual PC's trying this trick on their own fighter attack, then yes you would totally take out the "fire control" dice of the ship, since they aren't being used, and sub in the PC's Sense dice, heavily subject to MAP (Flying, Sensing, Shooting, and maybe even Evading).

Just don't try to judge the "accuracy" of the RAW based on a cinematic climax that relies more on Hollywoodism than with internal logical consistency.

[CRMcNeill]

I'm inclined to disagree in that dice rolls dictate the dividing line between success and failure in this RPG. The D6 rule of thumb has always been "pick a number and roll the dice to see if you beat it", then allow the characters to roleplay their reactions to that result. If I were playing in that game, having the GM dictate the results by fiat would be getting railroaded down the GM's dictated path, rather than having to roleplay what would happen if Luke missed that shot at that pivotal moment.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

[gavin storm]

Well considering he had only just begun his training, shortly before destroying the Death Star .....

I did it once untrained in a rpg thread (destroying a death star type battle station)

I did notice that he wasn't good at concealing his presence in the force, in Return of the Jedi.
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Gavin Storm
Causing Imperials headaches, one punch at a time, since 2000

[Quetzacotl]

[atgxtg]

[atgxtg]

[garhkal]

[The Brain]

Has anyone considered that maybe your WAY over thinking this? The TEP shot is not an adventure it's a story it is not going to conform to the rules. Even if you do then why has no one put forward the simplest explanation?

Force point.

And now the math...
Luke's starship gunnery skill 6D (Galaxy Guide 1 2nd ed) (S)
Proton Torpedo fire control 2D (T)
6+2=8 dice pool (P)

Turn off targeting computer
spend force point (F)
8-2*2=12

and if you really want to over complicate that
([S+T]-T)*F=12
And yes that bracket inside the parentheses is probably superfluous from an order of operations standpoint, but I'm just getting into the spirit of over thinking things.

[CRMcNeill]

Use of a Force Point is already included in the description of the Force Power Concentration, in that Luke was able to use Concentration because he wasn't performing any other action, plus he spent a Force Point on top of that. The debate has diverged slightly off course in discussing whether Concentration was appropriate for the circumstances. Use of a Force Point without using Concentration does get the requisite dice numbers to make a successful shot possible, but ignores the original point that Luke deliberately gave himself a -2D penalty (at a minimum) by deliberately turning off his proton torpedo fire control (his targeting computer). The question is not whether or not he still had the dice to make the roll, but why he would deliberately penalize himself if he didn't have to.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Quetzacotl]