Younglings & Cadets

[DB 2.0]

Ok trying to piece together a Clone Wars era campaign, but I've got a problem, how do you do Jedi on a +6D count? and only 7D in skills? short story you cant.

so how do you make a balanced game that includes Jedi? Padawans? nope they come to around 30D and around 12D in skills.

that means Younglings, specifically older ones nearing the end of their Initiate Trials (Tweens?). but putting them in a party with adults throws out the party dynamic too much, so team them up with some Clone Cadets, and so everyone's Att's and Skills match up make the Clones Commando Cadets.

what's the hook to get them all together?, some Younglings are out on the rim undergoing a Initiate Trial or right of passage (the Gathering perhaps), at the same time some Clone Cadets are on their Middi Cruse. this is when the Separatists make a big push, for safety the Jedi ship is diverted to link up with a couple of Cruisers in the area (the same one the Clone cadets are on), that's when the Droid Fleet finds the Republic Ships, in the ensuing battle the PC's are forced to escape in a smaller ship (Consular or Arquitens class would fit the bill nicely) that is damaged and forced to crash land killing any extraneous NPC's (i.e. all the adults) leaving a bunch of kids and perhaps a couple of Droids with a busted ship behind enemy lines.

for character variation perhaps throw in a member of the Legislative Youth Program or the kid of some dignitary.


Good start or dose it still need some work?

[DougRed4]

Overall your idea sounds like a good one to me, DB.

As for starting Jedi, you might get some insight from this thread I started a few months back.
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[Random_Axe]

[shootingwomprats]

I believe what he is asking is how do you create a fully developed Jedi using 18D attributes and 7D skill picks. The short answer, you don't. You need more points. So keep the attributes at 18D and bump up the 7D to 14 or 21D. Characters typically get 1 Force skill with every "D" of the Force attribute. For example: Control 5D, Sense 2D, Alter 2D, gives 9 Force Skills.

I also quite forgot. For beginning characters, they can use attribute die to increase Force skills.

I always thought this was odd, why not let them use skill dice for this? During character improvement the skills are treated as an advanced skill without a teach, costing double. Whereas an attribute costs x10 the "D" to improve. Not sure, the rules can be muddled at time.
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[garhkal]

[DB 2.0]

I want to have the players build standard characters (Race +6D, 7D Skills), but you can't build a "Golden Age of the Jedi" Jedi on that few dice, Padawan need around 30D for Stats & Force Abilities and around 10-12 dice for Skills.

so if you want to build a Standard Character who's a Jedi you have to go with a Youngling, put 13-15 D in to Stats and the remainder in to Force Abilities. who else can be in a party with them on equal footing socially? other kids, but Stat's and Skills wise they would have to be future Clone Commandos and Prodigies from the general population. even then Commando Cadets and Prodigies are much more capable if the Younglings put too many Die in to Force powers. but things should equalize quickly since the Younglings will either boast their skills to a comparable level sooner or raise their force abilities to an effective level (3-4D) over the first few adventures.

If you put an adult in to the party they become an authority figure, Child Characters should default to them as leader or the Player of the Adult Character could go "I'm the Adult hear, Just do what I say!" this prevents a normal party dynamic form forming.

[shootingwomprats]

Wow! I think your ideas for stats is ... crazy. Seriously 30D in stats for Padawan? If you stuck with the 18 for attributes, that's still 13D for 3 Force skills, an average of 5D, 4D, 4D. OMG!

I think you might be better off going this route:

Padawan Learner
Attribute Dice: 18D
Force Skill Dice: 1-15D
Skill Dice: 7-20D

Jedi Knight
Attribute Dice: 18D
Force Skill Dice: 15-24D
Skills Dice: 20-35D+

Jedi Master
Attribute Dice: 18D
Force Skill Dice: 24D+
Skill Dice: 35D+
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[DougRed4]

30D does sound insanely high at first blush, but it's probably about the amount you'd want for Jedi Knights and above, assuming you have to spend them on Force skills, too.

I would hold PCs to still put no more than 18D in attributes like SWR recommends, regardless of level of competence as a Jedi (after all, Vader only has 20 total in his, and he's an extremely experienced character).

I think Padawans with 2D-3D in each Force skill starting out is quite reasonable.
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[crazydanny1]

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that by giving the PC 18D for attributes and 7D for skills, you are already making a PC a "super-hero" when compared to the average Joe. Look at the "typical" stats for most very minor NPCs in the sourcebooks. The typical human is stat'd with 12D for attributes and almost no starting skill "D". Just by giving a character another 6D for their attributes, you are making them stronger, smarter, and faster than the usual guy on the street corner. So when a player has to divide those attribute dice and skill dice up, he may complain, but he's already got a PC that's better than most people will ever be... at least in the game.

Since the prequels and the Clone Wars materials have come out, it's hard to base a starting Force-user in the era falling from 999 BBY to 20 BBY. The Jedi Order was firm in their stance on beginning training during young childhood. So unless you want to run a campaign full of little kid PCs, you really have to look outside the box for character creation.

I'd leave the attribute dice alone. 18D spread out among six attributes and three Force skills could and should make for a well-rounded character. 3D DEX, 2D KNO, 2D MEC, 3D PER, 3D STR, 2D TEC, CSA 1D each. Now the Force skills aren't worth a snot, but I'll get to that. Skill dice... go 20D. We do 1D of skill dice for 3 skill specializations and 1D spent to gain 3 language skill specializations (those specializations automatically go to 5D in the specific language the player chooses). I would then allow the player to buy 1D in each Force skill for 2 skill dice, bring them up to 2D, leaving them with 12D in the skill dice to allocate out to skills. So a starting PC could look something like this:

Type: Jedi Padawan
DEXTERITY 3D
Blaster, Dodge 4D, Lightsaber 5D, Lightsaber: Form II: Makashi 4D, Running
KNOWLEDGE 2D
Alien Species, Languages 3D, (s)Languages: Bocce 5D, (s)Languages: Huttese 5D, (s)Languages: Astromech Binary 5D, Survival, Willpower 3D
MECHANICAL 2D
Astrogation 3D, Sensors, Starfighter Piloting 3D, Starship Gunnery 3D, Starship Shields
PERCEPTION 3D
Command, Persuasion, Search, Sneak
STRENGTH 3D
Brawling 4D, Climbing/Jumping 4D, Stamina
TECHNICAL 2D
Computer Programming/Repair, Lightsaber Repair 3D, Starfighter Repair
Special Abilities:
Force Skills: Control 2D, Sense 2D, Alter 2D
Force Powers:
Control: Accelerate Healing, Concentration, Control Pain, Remain Conscious
Sense: Danger Sense, Life Detection, Life Sense, Receptive Telepathy, Sense Force
Alter: Telekinesis
Control and Alter: Control Another's Pain
Control and Sense: Lightsaber Combat, Projective Telepathy
(This isn't the total of Force powers allocated nor is it skill dice... just an example using my GM's rules combined with my own. Check out our site for our house rules.)

Overall, that's a pretty good, well-rounded PC to begin play. And definitely over and above the typical people of the galaxy. Remember that most minor NPCs won't even be that good.

One last thing... for padawans, I won't let them go over 2D in any skill allocation dice. You have to leave them room to grow, especially since they're already superstars.
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[DB 2.0]

for a Padawan you need to put 15-18 D in to Atts and 10-13 D for Force Powers.

as to skills, 2D goes in to lightsaber and up to an other 3D go in to Advanced Lightsaber skills, an other in to Lightsaber Construction/Repair (2D+1 dose not a Lightsaber build). all Jedi should have Persuasion and Willpower around 4D (so 3D stat and 1D in each from the skill pool) and at least 1D in to Scholar: Jedi or Force.

Heck a bottom 10 percent Padawan (+1 in Lightsaber, Lightsaber Repair, Willpower and Jedi Lore) still has to spend 1-2D on Jedi skills before they can start spending them on Guardian, Consular or Sentinel Skills and if they want to be in the bottom 10 percent of those classes that's an other 1-2D. this leaves you 3-5D to throw around the grab bag of skills that non Jedi have.


Lets look at Rocco and Shadan a pair of 14-16 y.o. bottom 5-10 percentile Jedi Younglings just finishing their Trials and going to compete in the Jedi Temple Apprentice Tournament.


Rocco, Aspiring Jedi Guardian

Dex 2D+1: Lightsaber 3D, Brawling Parry 2D+2, Dodge 2D+2
Str 2D:
Mech 2D:
Tech 2D: Lightsaber Repair 2D+1
Per 2D+1: Persuasion 2D+2
Know: 2D+1: Jedi Lore 2D+2, Law Enforcement 2D+2, Willpower 2D+2

Control 2D
Sense 2D
Alter 1D

Move: 8
Force Points: 2
Character Points: 5

Rocco still has 4D worth of skills to split between crashing spaceships, botching investigations, dieing in the wilderness and inciting fraging incidents as well as trying not to suck so hard at his basic Jedi & Guardian Skills.


Shadan, Aspiring Jedi Consular

Dex 2D+1: Lightsaber 2D+2
Str 2D:
Mech 2D:
Tech 2D: Lightsaber Repair 2D+1
Per 2D+1: Bargain 2D+2, Persuasion 3D
Kno: 2D+1: Cultures 2D+2, Jedi Lore 2D+2, Languages 2D+2, Willpower 2D+2

Control 2D
Sense 2D
Alter 1D

Move: 8
Force Points: 2
Character Points: 5

Shadan is a bit better off she also has 4D to split between not sucking so bad at her basic Jedi and Consular skills, but she is less likely to be expected to lead troops in to battle, fly a Starfighter, go traipsing around the wilderness or conduct a criminal investigation so those 4D don't have to be spreed as thin if she doesn't want to. also her extra +1 to Dex could be shifted to either Per or Kno to prop up her Consular Skill base.

neither is very heroic in ability, their remaining 4D in skills will have to be spent making them equal to Joe Average skill wise and their Force Abilities are as yet of little consequence in their daily lives. heck either would have to dump most of their remaining 4D of skills in to Lightsaber and Advanced Lightsaber skills (if the GM would bend the rules to let them do it) just to making it through the "Jedi Temple Apprentice Tournament". most mixed parties would abandon them as dead weight and in a solo game where they are a dogsbody for a Jedi Master, well wile their off running an errand some griffter will take them for all there credits before some thug has about an even chance of leaving them face down in a gutter wile they make off with the kids lightsaber.

either character is more representative of a promising Youngling than a Padawan. also as a Youngling you could lower their Force abilities to prop up their Attribute Bases meaning their Skill dice can go futher.

[shootingwomprats]

Did you completely overlook my posting where I made suggestions for Padawan Learners, Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters which were broken down and a typical range for Attribute Dice and a minimum range for Force Skill Dice and Skill Dice? I really think these might help you.
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[garhkal]

[Centinull]

Shootingwomprats chart is a good guideline for NPCs.

If you started every player in the campaign at the same level, then you would have your balance.

Now, if your planning on playing a full Clone War Era Jedi, and not a starting level character, then your going to have seriously boost the other non jedi as well.

An Arc Trooper with good armor, heavy weapon, and just as many dice as you gave the Jedi , would be somewhat comperable.

[shootingwomprats]

I think people are forgetting the original purpose of the discussion. First off this is not a standard starting game, but all players are skilled padawans. Also he specifically wants his game to reflect skill levels presented in the prequels. There was no suggestion to work within the parameters of beginning character creation. With that being said, there is no reason that GMs game must be run per RAW. In fact I applaud a person who endeavors to create something new or show how the rules can be "hacked" to create the environment they want.
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[crazydanny1]

Sorry guys, I'm not trying to ignite a flame war with my earlier post. It was meant as a suggestion, that's all. I think shootingwomprats and DB have some really good ideas. I have had the misfortune of playing under some very heavy-handed GMs in the past that will throw veteran Stormtroopers at beginning level characters because "there should be a challenge." But I've also had the pleasure of running with a GM (my current one) who is very open-minded and willing to work with players for the sake of the story in the game. When I GM, I tend to go with either a lighter, bending the rules approach or if we're power-gaming, the skies the limit.

I guess I did miss the advanced part of the game that DB's trying to set up. My best suggestion would be to look at some of the PDF sourcebooks that have padawans stat'd in there. Go off of those stats. But please, for my sanity, don't allow your players to select the big hitting powers right off the bat. Make them earn those! PLEASE! LOL. I've had too many players rationalize why they can have Battle Meditation early on and then abuse the crap out of it at the first opportunity. It begins to make it a struggle as a GM to throw up challenges and competition for the PCs when they already have the big guns.

My case point was when I ran a Dark Side Campaign ten plus years ago. It was strictly a goof game, but most of the players absolutely went nuts because they really got to cut loose. At about the time that the PCs were hitting 7D to 8D average Force skill level, I had to start throwing some big guns at them. Non-Force-sensitive NPCs were like butter to their powers and Lightsabers. By the time they hit double digits, I had to start turning their fellow Darksiders against them and bringing in crazy powerful Jedi Master NPCs to combat them. One instance, a Jedi NPC had to burn a Force Point just to avoid being killed by one of the PCs that burned one of their own FPs and called upon the Dark side. The Jedi beat him by one point... One point.

This is all just my opinion and point of view...
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