Will power and force skills.

[garhkal]

As it stamds, most force skils that affect someone else, other than physically (like TK) use either their perception or Sense/control (if a force user themselves). I have seen a few arguments for alliwng willpower for the resistance. Who here, allows it:
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Endwyn]

It depends on how you view the force power working. The reason the game uses Perception or Control is because it is viewed as an assault against the senses. If you prefer to view it as an assault against the mind, then Kno or willpower may be appropriate. There are certain force powers that definatly target the mind itself over senses; but as a generalization for the rule more affects senses and perception (of senses). For me it would be situational.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Fehya]

We allow Willpower to be used against a number of force powers.
Without checking our list, as a rule of thumb, if it affects the mind or body then Willpower can be used against it.

[Jedi Skyler]

[KageRyu]

I absolutely allow it. I remember the first few times I encountered the skill was early 90's (just prior to 2nd edition) at official events, and that was the purpose of the skill. I find it perfectly resonable that someone can strengthen their mental resistance.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

Well, reading on the skill, it says it is used against interrogation, intimidation and persuasion. Nothing in it's write up, leads me to believe it should be usable against the force...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Jedi Skyler]

In the case of several of the Force powers, such as Receptive/Projective Telepathy, Affect Mind, etc., it is the MIND that is being affected in some way. Successful use of Willpower could signify the individual either has formidable natural mental shields or resistance, or the individual has spent considerable energy in developing their mental discipline (i.e., their ability to narrow their focus down to razor sharpness on a single task.) Someone capable of such focus would have a MUCH easier time keeping a probing Force user from extracting or implanting thoughts in their mind, but it wouldn't be because they were strong in the Force, simply strong mentally. So any Force power that deals with issues that parallel interrogation (Receptive Telepathy), intimidation (Aura of Uneasiness) or persuasion (Affect Mind) should be able to be deflected by someone with high Willpower.

(These powers listed aren't all-inclusive; just wanted to give an example of each.)

[KageRyu]

Yes, as willpower represents a sort of mental fortitude, just as stamina represents physical fortitude, I would say it stands to reason it would hinder Jedi powers that affect the mind. As I said earlier, when the skill was first introduced in Cons prior to the release of 2nd edition, this was it's intent. I will have to look, but I recall an adventure where one of the NPCs resists such powers with Willpower, which would definately set a precedent. If I can find the adventure, I will post the relevant information.

*edit* I must clarify, though, this should only work to it's fullest if the target is aware or alerted, or on a hightened guard (knows there is a chance of co-ersion or danger of some sort, or is prepared). Much like a dodge. There are times I would consider more of a "stamina" for the mind (a base resistance in any case) but otherwise it would be useless if the target of a receptive telepathy had no warning or knowledge to base his defense off. I guess I am saying it comes down to how deeply a force power affects the persons mind, or how deep the force user has too reach into the targets mind.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra

[garhkal]

[KageRyu]

[Jedi Skyler]

I don't know that I would necessarily agree with there being a need for the individual to have been "tipped off", as it were, in order for them to use Willpower. Watto certainly wasn't thinking that Qui-Gon was really a Jedi when he said that, and yet the mind power didn't work on him. Some individuals just inherently have a stronger will than others. I think the exceptions to Willpower being used (at full strength, anyway) would be a situation where an individual's will has been battered, which results in a penalty. Also, if a person is wounded or stunned, it stands to reason that their Willpower would suffer as well. (but then all skills take a hit, so that's just a given.) IMO Willpower should always be at full strength unless there are mitigating circumstances, because a high Willpower signifies that a character has spent time and effort to build their mental discipline. It therefore ought to require a distraction or some other outside influence to cause that discipline to waver.

[Endwyn]

Watto has a racial resistance to the force, similar or identical to the Hutts, so Watto is a bad example for willpower because that has nothing to do with his resistance.

As for needed to be on guard, if you are going to use willpower to resist the force; you'd better make the player declare "on guard". Willpower is used to resist con and such, but do you ask your players to roll willpower when they don't know they're being conned? If you did it would declare there is something odd going on. But if the players starts a situation with "I don't trust him", "He looks shaddy", or "how do I know he's not going to rip me off"; you know the player is "on guard" and tell them to roll. Even if they respond with "that doesn't sound right", you know they caught something. Same with the force - willpower is not a constant mental shield; it's a mixture of determination and conviction that holds the character sailing true to their coarse during rocky times...not during the calm waters.

Even if you allowed willpower, it's not the end all be all for force resistance. Things like receptive aren't evasive - they read surface thoughts only - you're not probing for anything below the surface; and surface thoughts are not guarded. There are lots of examples like that.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Jedi Skyler]

But here we then have to make sure we're using character knowledge rather than player knowledge.

Sure, the player didn't tell me he's wary of that Gotal in the back corner. But the player's character is a smuggler. By nature he's always on his guard, always making sure that he's not being tailed or whatever. IMO that means his guard being down would be the exception, rather than the rule.

[Endwyn]

There's a big difference between being on guard for a fight to break out or someone to knife you in your back than being on mental guard to protect yourself against the force. I'm sorry, but if your PC's are on "force guard" at all times then the GM is throwing way to many force users at the group way to regularly!

(Not you Trusty, that game is a completely different setting / story.)
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Jedi Skyler]

Maybe we need to clarify. I wasn't saying they were on "Force guard" per se, just that characters who are in professions where they're constantly looking over their shoulder because they could get nabbed at any second would be more likely to be on guard, period. Someone with a high Willpower isn't going to just be bowled over by some blustering brute, nor is he necessarily going to be smooth-talked by someone trying to pull the wool over his eyes. He's going to be suspicious of just about everything; for him it's become a way of life, the natural way to be. Now for Joe Schmuckerson who, even though he's a Rebel he's pretty much open-faced with everyone he deals with, he's gonna be easy to probe, mess with, or in some other way subvert his natural inclinations with someone who has more charisma, or the Force, or whatever. Not by a long shot do I think that everyone should ALWAYS have that Willpower bonus... but I do think there are cases to be argued for certain individuals to be ALWAYS harder to probe or intimidate.