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BentuSinn
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Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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 Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: The Lightsaber Combat power: First edition |
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Hey all
I have a question that's been puzzling me.
Does anyone have the d6 First Edition Rule Book from '87 and if so would you be so kind as to tell me what it says about the lightsaber combat skill?
The reason I'm asking is that I've been told that there's no power as such, so how does the system handle blaster bolt deflection and lightsaber skill enhancement?
Kind regards |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Sure.
In first edition the Lightsaber Combat Power didn't exist. They way it worked was that the Jedi would attack using his Lightsaber skill (unmodified) and parry with just his Sense skill (not lightsaber skill), and add his Control skill to his damage dice. Parry and redirecting blaster bolts was done pretty much the same way it's done now, but with fewer dice (just Sense).
All in all it was much simpler than the power, and a bit easier to fledging Jedi, since you didn't have to keep Lightsaber Combat up and suffer MAPs Jedi were also less powerful since they weren't rolling an many dice as in 2nd edition. |
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BentuSinn
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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So would a Jedi HAVE to parry using his sense, or could he choose either his lightsaber skill or his sense?
And does he redirect blaster bolts with his control like in 2nd edition? |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| BentuSinn wrote: | | So would a Jedi HAVE to parry using his sense, or could he choose either his lightsaber skill or his sense? |
If he wanted to parry a blaster bolt, yes. Against melee attacks he could use his Melee Parry. lightsaber was used for attack only.
| BentuSinn wrote: |
And does he redirect blaster bolts with his control like in 2nd edition? |
Yes, I believe so, although I'd have to check.
Another little perk in 1E was that if a character parried an attack with a lightsaber it would damage the attacking weapon, or inflict a wound on a creature if it attacked with a natural weapon. The latter ability proved extremely useful to Jedi PCs in our 1E games. |
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BentuSinn
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | BentuSinn wrote: | | So would a Jedi HAVE to parry using his sense, or could he choose either his lightsaber skill or his sense? |
If he wanted to parry a blaster bolt, yes. Against melee attacks he could use his Melee Parry. lightsaber was used for attack only.
| BentuSinn wrote: |
And does he redirect blaster bolts with his control like in 2nd edition? |
Yes, I believe so, although I'd have to check.
Another little perk in 1E was that if a character parried an attack with a lightsaber it would damage the attacking weapon, or inflict a wound on a creature if it attacked with a natural weapon. The latter ability proved extremely useful to Jedi PCs in our 1E games. |
Thanks a lot for the info 
I've used it to create my own version of the lightsaber aspects in the game (like every other GM apparently). |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I used some of the materials from 1st Edition to modify lightsaber combat for our game.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Frankly i think it was better balanced in 1E, but there wasn't a big advantage to being skilled with the Force. |
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BentuSinn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Frankly i think it was better balanced in 1E, but there wasn't a big advantage to being skilled with the Force. |
I guess that is kind of true.
My players argued that having Force Abilities at all is a big advantage.
Like being able to control pain, sense lifeforms, moving objects with your mind, etc.
Generally speaking the better you are with the Force, higher are the chances that you will succeed in spite of tough conditions or MAPs.
But results from the BIG powers are directly influenced by the number of D you have. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| BentuSinn wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | Frankly i think it was better balanced in 1E, but there wasn't a big advantage to being skilled with the Force. |
I guess that is kind of true.
My players argued that having Force Abilities at all is a big advantage.
Like being able to control pain, sense lifeforms, moving objects with your mind, etc.
Generally speaking the better you are with the Force, higher are the chances that you will succeed in spite of tough conditions or MAPs.
But results from the BIG powers are directly influenced by the number of D you have. |
Sorry, let me clarify.
What I meant is that in 1E there wasn't a big advantage to Force skills as far a wielding a lightsaber went. The powers certainly were advantageous in and of themselves.
For example, a non-Force Sensitive character in 1E could get a Lightsaber, and work on their Lightsaber and Melee Parry skills, get them up to 12D and give Obi-wan or Vader a decent swordfight. In 2E that just isn't the case. After a point, the Lightsaber Combat power augments Force Users ability with a lightsaber to a point where only other Force users can give them a good saber fight. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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So perhaps the bump up IN light saber combat 2e gave to force users is to blame, not just the force powers themselves.
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BentuSinn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | BentuSinn wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | Frankly i think it was better balanced in 1E, but there wasn't a big advantage to being skilled with the Force. |
I guess that is kind of true.
My players argued that having Force Abilities at all is a big advantage.
Like being able to control pain, sense lifeforms, moving objects with your mind, etc.
Generally speaking the better you are with the Force, higher are the chances that you will succeed in spite of tough conditions or MAPs.
But results from the BIG powers are directly influenced by the number of D you have. |
Sorry, let me clarify.
What I meant is that in 1E there wasn't a big advantage to Force skills as far a wielding a lightsaber went. The powers certainly were advantageous in and of themselves.
For example, a non-Force Sensitive character in 1E could get a Lightsaber, and work on their Lightsaber and Melee Parry skills, get them up to 12D and give Obi-wan or Vader a decent swordfight. In 2E that just isn't the case. After a point, the Lightsaber Combat power augments Force Users ability with a lightsaber to a point where only other Force users can give them a good saber fight. |
Ah, I see, and you're absolutely right.
I actually like that about the 1st edition rules. It allows for Jedi to focus in the force without automatically being a great swordsman.
And i never really liked the idea of adding control to damage. I mean a lightsaber shouldn't deal 15D damage :-S |
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Quetzacotl
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| BentuSinn wrote: | | I mean a lightsaber shouldn't deal 15D damage :-S |
Why not? Looking at the movies it feels like a hit should automatically destroy whatever it tried to hit. I mean a Lightsaber went through anything other then another Lightsaber (at least at the original trilogy, in the prequel trilogy the weapons of those Magna Guards could block Lightsabers to).
Personally I like the 1e RAW for Lightsabers.
We're gonna go with a variant of that for our next adventure... Lightsaber for attack, Melee Parry for melee defense, Melee Parry + Sense for Blaster defense, control for redirecting blaster bolts and 5D + Control for damage. |
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BentuSinn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quetzacotl wrote: | | BentuSinn wrote: | | I mean a lightsaber shouldn't deal 15D damage :-S |
Why not? Looking at the movies it feels like a hit should automatically destroy whatever it tried to hit. I mean a Lightsaber went through anything other then another Lightsaber (at least at the original trilogy, in the prequel trilogy the weapons of those Magna Guards could block Lightsabers to).
Personally I like the 1e RAW for Lightsabers.
We're gonna go with a variant of that for our next adventure... Lightsaber for attack, Melee Parry for melee defense, Melee Parry + Sense for Blaster defense, control for redirecting blaster bolts and 5D + Control for damage. |
Because you would never just get a glancing blow, like Luke did to Vader on Bespin og Dooku to Kenobi on Geonosis. You would just "win" if you hit. Not fun for anybody I think.
I just don't see how being strong in The force relates to the physical damage of an energy blade.
Sure it can cut through anything -- given the necessary time. Like Qui-Gon in TPM.
With 15D of damage he would have totally annihilated that blaster door in one swing.
In the movies blasters seem to kill/destroy what they hit too, with few exeptions. Yet they still do a realistic amount of damage.
People tend to argue that force users are so good that they know just where to hit and therefor deal their control in extra damage. But this is flawed argument since a guy with 17D in blaster would still only deal 4D with a blaster pistol. No matter how good you are, the energy produced by the weapon is still the same.
Thats my opinion at least 
I like your take on the rules too. Whatever suits your game, right? |
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Quetzacotl
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| Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Well, the big Problem is that in a Roleplaying game too miniscule hit areas are just hindering the game play.
A Lightsaber will just go through an ordinary blast door like a hot knife thorugh butter, but it won't destroy it in one swing.
The first thing is what we see in the movies, because every cm² of the door has it's own "hitpoints" so to speak. In the game, you damage the whole door at once.
And that leads to the inconsistency that in the Movie, everything gets cut through by a lightsaber while in the game it doesn't really.
So as a GM you have to wing it if you don't want it for the players to end in frustration (like "I have all the time in the world, y can't i cut through that blas door?", or the other way around "I just got hit by a 23 swing also i have 22 in defense, now I am instantly dead").
It's pretty hard to balance this out without ending in micromanagement and extreme book keeping -.- |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So perhaps the bump up IN light saber combat 2e gave to force users is to blame, not just the force powers themselves. |
No perhaps about it.
I'd say the "problem" is in three parts.
First off, all those extra dice tend to characters with LSC an overwheling advatage
Secondly, adding Control to damage makes the lightsabers a bit too much. A skilled PC with LSC up could actually "kill" and ISD -especially if he spends an FP.
Lastly, the added dice and MAPs makes LSC much more complcated than any other rule in the RPG.
I won't offer a solution here (we got multiple threads for that already) but I definately had more fun with my Jedi PC in 1E. |
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