Variant Lightsaber Combat Rule

[Bren]

Bren’s Variant Lightsaber Combat Power
Control Difficulty: Moderate (roll without subtracting for other skill uses)
Sense Difficulty: Easy (roll without subtracting for other skill uses)
Effect: To use a lightsaber most effectively, a Jedi learns this power. The Jedi uses this power both to wield this elegant but difficult to control weapon while also sensing his opponent's actions through his connection to the Force.
Activating this power is a “free” action. The power is called upon at the start of a battle and remains "up" until the Jedi is stunned or injured (and the Jedi’s remain conscious or control pain roll is failed); a Jedi who has been injured or stunned may attempt to bring the power back "up,” in a later round.
If the Jedi is successful in using this power, the Jedi uses the average of his Control and Sense skills as a dice pool. These dice can be modifications to either the lightsaber skill roll (i) when trying to hit a target, (ii) when trying to parry, (iii) to the lightsaber damage (which can be raised or lowered), or (iv) to strengthen the lightsaber to parry or reflect above normal damage. This division must be made before rolling to hit, parry, or damage..
If the Jedi fails one of the power rolls to activate, any subsequent attempts to activate lightsaber combat in the same battle incur a penalty of -1D per failed attempt.
Finally, the Jedi may use lightsaber combat to parry blaster bolts. To do this, the character may either declare a full parry at the beginning of the round or use reaction parries. A full parry adds the lightsaber roll to the attacker’s difficulty to-hit. A reaction parry roll must be greater than or equal to the firer’s attack roll. Either type of parry counts as an additional action. One reaction parry is necessary for each separate attacker.
The Jedi may also attempt to control where deflected blaster bolts go, although this counts as a reaction action. The Jedi must declare which specific shot he is controlling. Then, if the parry roll is successful, the Jedi makes a control roll, with the difficulty being his new target's dodge or the range (figured from the Jedi to the target). The damage is that of the original blaster bolt.
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What has changed about Lightsaber Combat (LSC)
(1) LSC is easier and faster to put up. This seems in keeping with what we see in the movies, especially the prequels. However, a control and sense roll is still required so for younglings and some padawans, taking extra rounds, concentration, or CP expenditure may be required to successfully put up LSC.
(2) Activating LSC is always beneficial in combat, even for Jedi with low force abilities. Though at low levels it gives a very low bonus.
(3) LSC now provides a higher bonus to Jedi at lower levels, i.e. when Control and Sense average 4D or below.
(4) LSC provides a lower bonus to the Jedi at higher levels, i.e. when Control and Sense average 5D and above. This variant has a break even point with the RAW when Control and Sense average between 4D and 5D
When Control and Sense average 9D or above the bonus is half or less that of the RAW and the decrease in the bonus between the variant the and the RAW continues to increase as Control and Sense increase.
(5) LSC gives a bonus dice pool that can be divided among four choices (i) increasing lightsaber attacks, (ii) increasing lightsaber parries, (iii) increasing lightsaber damage, (iv) increasing the damage that a lightsaber can parry/reflect - this assumes that a lightsaber can typically parry around 5D-6D character scale damage without enhancement. To parry the heavy laser cannon on an AT-AT (10D character scale damage) would require adding 5D from the die pool to increase the damage that the lightsaber can parry/reflect.
(6) Parrying blaster shots from multiple shooters takes one additional action per shooter.
(7) This is intended to work in harmony with the Variant Lightsaber Dueling Rules I recently posted. Taken together, I think they will allow even Jedi using a FP to have a chance to duel together for more than one round.

I think this allows Jedi characters to remain in the sweet spot of playability for a longer period of time and an higher force power dice levels, while the flexibility of the dice pool still allows Jedi to do things we see in the movies like parry or attack multiple opponents, parry and reflect blaster shots, and burn holes in blast doors. They just can't do all of those things all in the same round. Which we generally don't see Jedi do in the movies.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Random Numbers]

I like it.

So it's one parry action for each attacker. Not one parry action for every shot from each attacker?
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Random is who random does...

[Raven Redstar]

Or declaring a full parry action. Which means no re-directing or attacking.

[garhkal]

Other than its a free action to bring it up (no maps for anything else)< not bad..
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[vanir]

I'm having trouble visualising it but just got off a series of double work shifts and I'm drinking today, I assure you it seems a very well thought out system, I know like a few posters you're a real good GM Bren from everything you've written so I'm certain this is an excellent system I will look over again when I can wrap my head around it.
All you guys have much respects from me, always writing really great stuff here, sharing around the wealth.

In our game I never liked the 2nd edition revision of Jedi and force powers in some ways. When we started out it was 1st edition and only two books, we made up just about everything using that system and the way we use the force in our game I think really benefitted.
I was also training with a very traditional japanese school then which the other gamers knew about so they entrusted me with all the house rules for jedi stuff, especially lightsabre combat.

IIRC the power Lightsabre Combat was introduced in 2nd edition to differentiate from Force Adepts and Jedi Knights, since the way it was anyone who picked up a lightsabre could automatically add control to damage and sense to lightsabre skill. Since this was specific to Jedi training, the idea was to make it so that an Alien Force User had to actually learn this power to use a lightsabre in this way.

So fair enough, but it's important to consider this agenda when using the power in the game. It's really just to prohibit non-Jedi from running around using lightsabres like a Jedi Knight just by picking one up for the very first time, just because you're a force user.
Second point, go ahead and use it as an allegory of real world effects to get a real handle on the best game mechanics for it.

Firstly using proper physical mechanics with the katana is beginner level student stuff, if you can't pick an attack before you can see it coming (sense/lightsabre skill), you've been trained less than a few weeks, let alone years by professionals. A beginner dojo session is stepping aside from being touched from behind silently, whilst blindfolded and almost everyone can do it the first time, every time. These are mundane human skills, simply forgotten by most people since childhood (it's a lot like knowing when someone across the room is staring at you). You learn to start applying these mundane human abilities in combat first of all, otherwise you aint going nowhere with it and won't last your first combat encounter (nobody survives combat by trading blows like the terminator).
You also have to have the right frame of mind to absorb training in actual skills development anyway. Shideoshi of the shugenja mikkyo (teachers of the warrior ways of enlightenment) call this "becoming the zero." A state of enlightenment (mahayana buddhism) is actually called, being the zero.

So yeah, lightsabre combat is not something you have to maintain nor is it a conscious action, it's a philosophical state of life appreciation. Not so much a learned thing, but more like its obstacles are an unlearned thing by training. Think of it in this way. And it's not a big stretch, GL used eastern and Arthurian mythologies in his conceptualisation of the Jedi.

There is a danger however, it can be toyed with in a defender by using effective psychological attacks (everything from emotional distraction to circumstantial perceptions and general life stress). So sure, lightsabre combat can become an unsuccessful power under given circumstances, if faced with a highly experienced combatant. Or when used by an inexperienced or poorly trained combatant.

But modern life in a consumerist society is inherently distracted by commercialism and memetics to begin with. So indeed for a mediaeval samurai walking around in modern day New York, he would have to spend a moment to centre himself and "activate" the power as per his normal combat regime and training environment.

I give it the normal action requirement unless the character is expecting combat, where I'll give it as a free action (if using danger sense for example, lightsabre combat becomes a free action). The control/sense rolls are free actions, activating the power is circumstantially free or an action.
Disrupting the power has to be theatrical and appropriate, I refuse to simply allow any stun or injury result to cause a disruption, fully 90% of traditional kobudo is about ignoring injury for greater tactical gains, not avoiding it like a sport. Combat isn't nearly so pretty (I can go into detail here but at this point it should probably be obvious). If you electively disengage combat, say to heal an injury or to chase down a fleeing opponent (but not to activate control pain which elicits a continuance of effective combat capability despite injury), well then sure you may have to reactivate the power. It is very circumstantial here.

Similarly an unsuccessful activation of the power doesn't prohibit another attempt, but will count as an action that round in which you'll probably be parrying and doing other actions, since you're a little behind the 8-ball as it is.

I would encourage all GMs to be very ad hoc and circumstantial with any application of the lightsabre combat power, as well as many other uses of the force.
They really describe genuine mundane effects, allegorically. Treat them like the real world effects they are an exaggerated or fictional allegory of, I say.

[Bren]

[Random Numbers]

[garhkal]

[Azai]

Have you had a chance to play test this Bren? I am really interesting in how it works out.

For me it kinda lets those "Boba Fett" type characters stand a little bit more of a chance against lightsaber wielding Jedi. Yet at the same time allowing the Jedi to still be, well Jedi.

I think combined with the variant lightsaber combat, and maybe even crm's new lightsaber forms... It might be really fun.

[Bren]

[DougRed4]

This also has some great ideas that I want to consider more, hence the reason I'm bumping it up.

Also, a reminder (to myself) to find Bren's Dueling rules (posted around the same time as this).
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[DougRed4]

On this one too we weren't sure when the declaration for how much shuffling/allocating (within the pool) gets done? Is it declared at the start of the turn/round? (that's what we assumed was the only way that made sense)

The Jedi declared that he was always going to allocate his pretty evenly, applying nothing to damage.

This influenced what the Dark Jedi did, forcing him to allocate his in much the same way (to have any chance of hitting). In other words, he couldn't risk putting anything to damage, as anything he did would subtract more from his chance of hitting.

On the one time the Dark Jedi allocated all of it to attack (to guarantee a hit getting through), it forced the Jedi to go nuclear (spend a Force Point), as he was facing an attack roll in the 80's.

Overall I like the "dice pool" mechanic, but am still concerned with what happens if someone shuffles all of their dice to attack. I'm wondering if a rule of no more than half of one's pool could go to any one thing might work?
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[Naaman]

The only time I've ever encountered rolls that high was when LSC (RAW) was being rolled with 15D or more and a FP was used...

Did BBEG use a FP?

The way I read it, it's supposed to be declared for the entire round. I would figure it is done at the start of your turn.

[DougRed4]

Nope, no FP used to get that number. It was Darth Maul, and he added in his bonus 9D (all to attack) on top of his other numbers.

And yeah, I figure it's got to be start of the round as well.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green