| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: Shield ablation |
 |
|
Does anyone have any rules for depleting shields, or the like? I'm trying to come up with something and am a little torn. I like the idea of shields absorbing damage - it seems reasonable. It does make things like Droideka over-powered in many cases. Sure, there are tricks to finishing them... But a standard army won't have enough man-power to stop an army of Droideka, even if they're half the numbers.
So far I have a few options:
1) Shields deplete at a rate of X dice for every round(s) of constant damage. They would replenish after one minute of no damage. (Second favorite because the bookkeeping isn't terrible.)
2) Shields can only take damage, though at full code, for a certain number of rounds (per dice?) until they fail. Replenish the same.
3) They have a certain fixed value of damage they can absorb. Replenish. (This is my favorite, but has been super hard to determine how much damage it can soak.)
4) They function similar to a character with a Str value of the shields dice code. Stuns, wounds, etc lower the die code. It can be completely destroyed if unlucky.
HELP!
Edit: I've reviewed the Force Field power in D6 Powers (I know, I'm terrible) and I think that would work just fine. It absorbs a certain fixed amount based on it's rank, and gives you a pool of 1D per rank to assort to various damage. This means that a high volume of attacks can break through, unless they're too weak. It doesn't have anything that will cause the shield to fail; nothing that fits what I'm looking for anyway.
Still looking for input, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just to make sure, you're referencing character scale shields correct?
There are a few instances of them. One is in Galadinum's Fantastic Technology. But I can check on the others.
None of the droideka stuff really came out until after WEG lost the license, and so all we have are extrapolations of what WOTC produced. I've got a write up on droid shields in the Scavenger's Guide to Droids Conversion Guide as well as a set of character shields in Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide Conversion Guide (geez that's a long title). Most of it was based on a scattered set of mechanics that WEG left hither and thither across its books. They never were terribly consistent in terms of character grade shields.
Do you need links to the conversion guides?
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, character scale shields: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Personal_energy_shield
I know that there isn't much about the shields. That's why I feel stumped. =/ I'm curious how other forum goers are working the shields. As I mentioned, the rules for Force Fields in D6 Powers seems to be suitable, though not spectacular. Sadly, not many have access to the book.
The links would certainly be nice - it'd save me time. =) I'm only able to find snips. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 171
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just treat it like damage to personal armor. Armor only loses effectiveness if the damage is great enough to go through it and actually harm the wearer. I think the idea is that the armor just wasn't tough enough to stop the blast, and some of it got through, so the armor must have been damaged.
The same thinking can apply to shields. If the vehicle is lightly damages, -1 pip from shields. If heavily damaged, -1D from shields. If the vehicle is severely damaged, the shields go down but can be repaired later.
Personally, I don't like the idea of shields losing effectiveness just by virtue of providing benefit. In other words, just because you roll your shield dice doesn't mean they should decrease in effectiveness.
A compromise between these two positions is to roll the shield dice separately from the hull dice and only deplete the shield dice if the damage roll is greater than the hull roll by itself.
And just a note on the Option 4 you mentioned . . . characters always roll their full Strength code to resist damage, even if they've been stunned or wounded. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I handle character-scale shields analogous to vehicle and starship shields.
If, even with the shield bonus to resistance, the character still duffers some damage, then the shield looses 1D of effectiveness. If the damage result suffered is only "Stunned", then it is ignored, resulting in shield reduction only.
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I run it similar to Leon, although I have used some shields that get a stand alone rating (i.e. Shields 4D instead of adding 2D to STR) which drop 1D when overcome. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That makes sense. Feel sheepish for not having just thought of that. It falls in-line with the Force Field power anyway, as it would take penalties as damage built up.
More input is welcome! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hyfigh wrote: | Yes, character scale shields: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Personal_energy_shield
I know that there isn't much about the shields. That's why I feel stumped. =/ I'm curious how other forum goers are working the shields. As I mentioned, the rules for Force Fields in D6 Powers seems to be suitable, though not spectacular. Sadly, not many have access to the book.
The links would certainly be nice - it'd save me time. =) I'm only able to find snips. |
There are a few reasons why you don't see these statted out very often. Most of that has to do with the replication of the bulk of media out there, namely books, comic books, and films. By and large (other than droidekas) you don't see shields used very often. It's just not something entirely common in the Star Wars Universe. Not unheard of, but not common either.
They are usually a convention of video games for a couple of purposes. If you're looking at the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight games they are a way of keeping a one man army alive. You're supposed to go solo through these dungeons and lay waste to hordes of Stormtroopers, dark Jedi, and even the periodic AT-ST. Without some way of making your guy hardy, you're gonna die in 12 seconds.
In KoTOR they served a similar function. And even then you used them, but not as a key survival element. If you had a particularly tough guy, you'd use them to keep yourself alive, but you're not always going to waste an action to activate it if you're just going to go chop sake on the guy that round with a flurry of dual wielded lightsaber strikes.
So, here's the question. Why do you want them? What sort of in-game feel that you're trying to replicate? Then think hard as to how that feel will integrate into a balanced mechanic. I designed a few shield designs like some of the other users are mentioning, but I made sure I statted in some liabilities. They had limited activations, they had a 24 time limit per activation, they went down if you were Wounded, and they are EXPENSIVE. Why? Because we have issues with 5D strength Wookiees as it is, and giving every player the ability to become completely bulletproof to everything but an AT-AT does not help the game. But what are the players doing that necessitates a shield and how does that fit into the whole tone you're trying to cultivate as a GM.
Am I saying "don't use them?" No. I designed the sets for both the KOTOR conversion book and the Scavenger's Guide book. Just like any powerful bit of tech... think carefully how you use them.
Here are the two I did for the conversion books:
| Quote: |
Personal Shields
Model: Czerka 351-K personal shield
Type: Protective energy-dispersing shield
Cost: See chart below *
Availability: 1
Game Notes: Energy shields may be activated once a
day, for a full day's worth of limited protection from
energy attacks. Personal shields are unaffected by
physical attacks. Once the wearer has taken damage
of Wounded or greater, the energy shield shuts down
to prevent a critical overload. The shield may be
activated again the following day. However, the
shield can only be activated a total of five times.
* The Strength bonus to resist energy damage
determines the cost of the shield.
Bonus Cost
+1 500
+2 2,500
1D 4,000
1D+1 8,000
1D+2 12,000
2D 18,000
Source: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
(pages 71-72) |
| Quote: |
Droid Shields
Type: Protective shield upgrade
Cost: See chart below *
Availability: 3, X
Game Notes: Once a droid has taken damage level of Damaged (the droid equivalent of Wounded) or greater, the energy shield are blown. The shield may be activated again with a moderate droid programming/repair roll.
* The Strength bonus to resist physical and energy damage determines the cost of the shield.
Bonus Cost
+2 2,500
1D+2 5,000
2D+1 7,500
3D 10,000
Source: Saga Edition Core Rulebook (page 195) |
Now, these may or may not suffice. It just depends on what your game needs are, and how to best make the mechanics fit the tone without overbalancing the game.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nuclearwookiee wrote: | Just treat it like damage to personal armor. Armor only loses effectiveness if the damage is great enough to go through it and actually harm the wearer. I think the idea is that the armor just wasn't tough enough to stop the blast, and some of it got through, so the armor must have been damaged.
The same thinking can apply to shields. If the vehicle is lightly damages, -1 pip from shields. If heavily damaged, -1D from shields. If the vehicle is severely damaged, the shields go down but can be repaired later.
. |
This is imo the best solution..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 171
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | nuclearwookiee wrote: | Just treat it like damage to personal armor. Armor only loses effectiveness if the damage is great enough to go through it and actually harm the wearer. I think the idea is that the armor just wasn't tough enough to stop the blast, and some of it got through, so the armor must have been damaged.
The same thinking can apply to shields. If the vehicle is lightly damages, -1 pip from shields. If heavily damaged, -1D from shields. If the vehicle is severely damaged, the shields go down but can be repaired later.
. |
This is imo the best solution.. |
I just like to borrow from the rules whenever possible. I thought of another simple way to handle this, too. Shield ablation already exists for vehicles . . . it's the "shields blown" result. In vehicle combat, "controls ionized" is the functional equivalent of a "stun" result for characters. If the vehicle has shields, however, then a result of "controls ionized" becomes "shields blown" and the vehicle loses 1D of shields. Just use the same convention at character scale. If a character has shields and suffers what would be a stun result, remove 1D from the shield code instead of inflicting a "stun" result on the character. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are two reasons I ask, actually.
The first is for my current campaign. The design isn't so much for my PC's, but more-so my foe's. My campaign has lasted nearly two years now (late summer will be two, I think) and, as such, my characters are starting to get out of the normal curve of mooks being much of a threat. Add this into having some of my "boss" characters being a cake-walk, and I'm wanting a little more. At an early point my player's were trying to overtake a Rebel position (it's an Imperial campaign, sort of - long story). The Rebel's were armed with a few stations that used Espo's; the model with the energy shield. It was an amazing tool for helping me force my players to think outside of the box.
The problem that it did create is that if the emplacements didn't have gaps, the player's wouldn't have stood a chance. There is no amount of blaster pistol fire-power that the players could have offered to kill the 6D shield. Even their rifles weren't doing well most of the time. This is a similar issue with droideka; their shields are amazing and it makes even three of them a very strong force against my now seasoned veterans.
I understand that Quigon and Obi had trouble with them. My point is that if a force of 1/5th the size that was droideka were to come into play, the droideka would be nigh-unstoppable because their shields would stop most standard-issue gear. Sure, the rules for mass combat exist, but the issue of their shields is still a stout problem. Taking forty blaster bolts in the matter of a few rounds, which is only about 1/2 minute-ish, shouldn't be able to stay at full force.
I think it would be interesting if they had to fight mooks that now have their hands on personal energy shield tech. They'd be caught by surprise and have to, as before think of ways around the problem. I don't want the over-powered feel of the Espo/droideka, though.
Is it detrimental to my story arch to not have them? No, it's not been game-breaking either way. I'm more just interested in seeing how others handle them.
The second reason has to do with a home-brew, cross-genre campaign. I'm eliminating the energy protection normally available in armor. Energy shields will be a front-arc-only protection from energy attacks. Kind of a moot thing here, but it's at least part of the reason I am searching.
It's not a dire emergency; I am curious how others are handling it - if they indeed even worry about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4847
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It sounds like it can add an interesting dynamic into that set of adventures.
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hyfigh
Ensign
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 26
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was envisioning something akin to Warhammer 40K... Having this house-rule-set would make energy weapons desirable, expensive, but not the end-all. It would also require tactical decision making, as reasonably owning and carrying an energy weapon and a kinetic weapon is a bit rough.
I don't think I'll incorporate them too much further into my SW campaign. They're a nice spice, but I can fluff them in, rather than worrying too much about a bunch of non-necessary rules. Thank you for helping put that to light for me Cheshire. =)[/i] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Anything that radically changes the status quo among weapons generally needs sort sort of balancing factor to prevent it from changing the setting.
If somebody comes up with good personal shields, then practically everybody who is prone to get into a fight or three will want them. So the GM should probably come up with one (or several) reasons why that hasn't happened, and why we don't see everybody using personal shields in the films. Cost, special materials, legal restrictions, limited functionality, or something.
THat said, once you make sure you can keep things in check, you can have a lot of fun running wild. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Plus if you give the enemy them, the PC's will eventually get their hands on them. Figure out if you want that to happen..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
