Leather, Scale, and Bone armors

[Kayle Skolaris]

What sort of armor value should armors made of leather, scale, and bone have? On Earth such armors are relatively weak, but in Star Wars with creatures like Rancors, Wuffa Worms, and Lava Dragons to use as raw materials, you never know. Traditional Coynite Battle Armor, for instance, is apparently made from a native plant and is good for +2D versus Physical and Energy attacks with a -1D Dexterity penalty.

[Krayt]

Primitive armor in star wars? Well, here are a few ideas

Rancor Bone: +3D Phy, +1D Eng, -1D+1 DEX
Leather Bantha Armor: +2 Phy, -1 DEX
Gundark Scale Armor: +1D Phy, +1 Eng, -2 DEX
Wood Armor: +1D+1 Phy, +2 Eng, -1D DEX

These are just example, so figure armour would reflect the creature it comes from. For example, rancor's bone absorbs alot of damage at a high DEX penalty.

And as another idea, primitive armor made by modern people in SW will be worse then the primitive armor made on back world/non-space aged planets where people depend on it.

Hope that helps a bit.
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"Your lack of faith disturbs me." - Vader

[Kayle Skolaris]

Rancor Hide is good for +3D versus Physical and Energy when the beast is alive. Would it be just as effective after tanning and being worked into a suit of armor? What about Lava Dragon scale armor? Lava Dragon hide is good for +4D versus Physical and +8D versus Energy and the creature itself is Speeder scale.

What about creatures whose hide has no intrinsic armor value, but which are physically extremely durable such as Krayt Dragons or Krakanas?

[Krayt]

I'd say that they'd degrade a little bit (Not Much) for bone, not at all for scales, and a bit for leather.

So, the dragon would be about +3D+1 Psy, +7D Eng, and -1D+2 DEX, I'd say.

Creatures with no armor value in their hide would provide
No Leather armor
No Scale Armor
A lot of bone armor
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"Your lack of faith disturbs me." - Vader

[Gry Sarth]

One thing that should be taken into account is that WEG surely figured the creature's size into those natural armor bonuses. I don't think that just because a 6m tall creature has +3D natural armor, a human wearing his hide would get the same bonus. It should be downgraded considerably.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[vong]

i agree with Gry on this one, his size factors inot that bonus quite a bit. the energy bonus is what would be less to due with size..
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[Krayt]

No, what I see is this: A creature's armor will affect anyone. For example, Only wearing a bit of hide, then I don't see why he cant get the same bonus. I really don't see why size of a target gives it better armor. If the armor's the same all over the creature, then anyone wearing it should get the bonus.
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"Your lack of faith disturbs me." - Vader

[Gry Sarth]

I know, that's how it would work in reality, but this is an RPG system. I think that when a creature is being stated, the designer think "Ok, this is a huge beast, so it should have that much natural armor", so when you take just a single square meter of its skin, it shouldn't protect you quite as much. But I agree that this is not an issue that everyone will consider logic, that's just my opinion, feel free to disregard it.

Another issue that's been mentioned is that skin on an animal works differently than skin as an armor. On the animal the hide is perfectly applied, connected to muscles and nerves and whatnot, so it is at its peak resistance. When you make an armor out of that hide, the structure is compromised, the skin loses its elasticity and other things occur that should degrade its protection value.

The thing is I don't think natural armor, even made out of great creatures should be better than technologically advanced and carefully engineered armor made out of the best synthetic materials around. If a natural armor offers an amazing physical protection, than it should incur some very heavy DEX penalties. The only armors that I think should be really exceptional in terms of cost/benefit should be those from "near-magical" beasts like the Lava Dragon.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Camero]

I agree with Gry's scale / largeness point. And along with what Gry said about most hides becoming compromised in the process of harvesting and using them, to me there is also the point that the armor then was living and an integrated part of the beast. That armor was a part of that beast's natural physiological make-up and as such provided him with those high benfits and so the same high benefits are not necessarily going to transfer to someone else wearing a peice of its dead body (some transfer yes, not all).

That being said, I like the idea of using some natural stuff to balance tech stuff (fun idea) - but being a bit of a Star Wars purist (I like the generally tech centered ideas of advancement and civilization in the game) I would be careful not to make it too D&D. Allthesame I see some possibility for the occasional and rare natural armor that is exceptional (but still game balanced to similar, even if slightly less, Dex penalties and resistance abilities). Coynite armor is one of my favorites for strength and minimum penaltiy, and sure the Coynite armor is made partially from plant strands, but looking at the pics of the armor shows that it seems to have undergone a significant technological process in its manufacturing. If you want to do similar stuff with Rancor hide and whatnot then give it a shot but it may take a significant process to get it back up near its living armor rating and should still cause appropriate Dex penalties.

If you want to go nuts with a super natural armor make it the center of several missions or more to hunt down the animal, techniques, and whatnot to make it happen - and then still it should be somewhat in balance (none of this 8D against energy stuff) or the game looses its fun and just becomes hack n' slash. But if you want "D&D Star Wars" or "Rifts Star Wars" I guess you are free to run your own games how you want.
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[Camero]

I like the idea of using the chitin exoskeletons of insect like star wars beasts to create a naturally strong armor which maybe lighter than other armors...could be fun...
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[Kayle Skolaris]

Gry, your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Krayt Dragons are larger than Rancors, but they have no 'armor', only raw strength. A Rancor has up to 8D Strength in addition to +3D from their armored hide. Krayt Dragons have 12D strength and no armor at all.

Similarly, Krakanas are huge, measuring between 14.5 and 26 meters in length. They're also Speeder Scale. They don't have any armor, though. They roll their Strength attribute of 6D for resisting damage.

On the other hand, Lava Dragons are much smaller, being 6.6 to 9 meters in length. They are also Speeder Scale, have 6D Strength, AND they have an armored hide good for +4D versus Physical and +8D versus Energy.

Then there's the Barabel with its scaly hide... There's a number of species that are larger, but they get no armor bonus.

[Gry Sarth]

Actually I think your points make me more confident in my view of things. As you say, a colossal Krayt Dragon has no armor bonus, while the smaller Rancor has +3D. Now, does that mean that a Krayt's skin is exactly as resistant as human skin? Surely not, it's just that the designers decided that the bulk of the animal was more important and thus put all its resistance in its STR. The reason my argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny is that the D6 system is not perfect, as evidenced by the above example. That's why when doing such conversions we can't just accept the official stats at face value, we have to interpret what is the intent behind them. If someone made a Krayt hide armor, I'd give it at least +1/+2 physical resistance, and if someone made a Rancor hide armor I would most certainly not give it +3D physical/energy resistance.

But, then again, that's just my opinion.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Jamfke]

[Gry Sarth]

Now that is a great way to pick a bar fight!

...might as well throw a wookiee pelt scarf on top of it to round it up.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Krayt]

Oh, I could imagine that!

A couple of my players have skinned their prey before... And a couple of humans too !
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"Your lack of faith disturbs me." - Vader