Quad Laser Cannon?

[tetsuoh]

I noticed the Millenium Falcon and a number of other vessels have Quad or Tri Laser Cannons.

However by the rules you can only fire link up to 3 weapons according to Tramp Freighters. Am I missing something?

I was hoping to put a Double Quad Laser Turret on my ship as its primary offense - but by the current rulings I don't believe I can.

Now it says in the Falcon's stat block that the quads are fired sperately - yet in the movies this only seems true of the two seperate gunnery stations, or am I wrong?

whereas I'm looking for the same set up but with a gunnery turret with a double quad - fire linked. Is that even possible? I don't really see the problem with it except maybe permits being impossible thus making the ship's guns illegal. Fire linking 4 guns wouldn't even match the falcons firepower if they are light cannons - it would only be 5D instead of 6.

Im confused - help please?

[CRMcNeill]

[tetsuoh]

ah our GM has agreed that fire linking into a turret is an advancing difficulty so its simply a matter of how skilled you are.

Same goes for firelinking turrets to a ship's controls.

problem solved - for me at least.

[Grimace]

I feel people are forgetting the terminology used.

You're looking at the rules in Tramp Freighter
You're referencing military starfighters as the rational.

Just because an X-Wing or Z-95 has the ability to link multiple guns together doesn't mean the common tramp freighter pilot is going to be able to do the same thing.

The exception to military is the Falcon's weapons, but we know for a fact that either Solo or Calrissian (since we're not sure who had the guns installed on the Falcon) did so illegally. We're not sure if they did the modifications themselves, or had someone else with the know-how do it. And neither of the two are what I would consider a "common" tramp freighter captain.

So be careful using examples from military starfighters as reasoning for why a tramp freighter captain should be able to do the exact same thing. Doesn't work that way.

If you find the right people to do the illegal modifications, grease the right palms, then SURE, you could have quad mounts too. But if you're going to be a reasonably legal tramp freighter, 3 is the most you can fire link doing those modifications.

Heck, for the record, the blasters on the Trade Federation battleship are quads as well, but that doesn't mean they should be mounted on a tramp freighter.

Still, it's your game group, so do what works in your games. Just be aware of the terminology when you consider the rules.

[garhkal]

And just cause you do get them, does not mean you will always encounter imperials who can be bribed around cause you have illegal stuff.
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[vanir]

I think when the author says "fire link 3 weapons" he means up to three separately located, mounted, powered weapons that would normally be individually crewed and probably fixed mountings, but you can fire link the computers for a single guncrew, or fired from the cockpit.

Quad lasers are more like a battery, mounted in a cluster at the same location, drawing from a common power supply, by default already operated by a single gunner. And on civilian ships by default are jury rigged and have mishap modifiers, as well as complicated and costly installation (both in terms of cargo tonnage deletion and credits).

Fire linking three solidly mounted static lasers here and there on the ship but facing the same arc, is just a matter of datalinking their fire control computers to fire from a single gunnery control as one gun.

A battery cluster increases the power requirements for that particular weapon mount, the fire control might need specialised protocols so the individual guns don't interfere with each others performance during firing, the structural area may need reinforcement due to the much higher demands placed in a confined location. It may not have the "fire link up to three weapons" restriction, but may impact the vessel in terms of jury rigging and structure as a means to limit these kind of mountings.

[Quetzacotl]

Since you guys are already talking about it... what exactly does "fire linked" mean?

So, for example, the YV-100 Light Freighter hast the following weaponry:
2 Blaster Cannons (fire-linked)
2 Laser Cannons (fire-linked)

What does that mean? Do I roll one attack for both Blaster Cannons or both Laser Cannons but role weapon damage separately? Do I make two attacks that count as one Action with it and role separate damage?

Where can I find the rules regarding fire linked?


Sorry for the question, but I didn't want to create a new thread just for that question when (imho) it fits in this thread...

[jmanski]

If they're listed as fire-linked it means they are statted for both guns firing together. I would prefer if they simply called fire-linked guns "double" or "triple" blasters or whatever. Seems to make a lot more sense to me.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[Quetzacotl]

Well, that was the part i already understood, but what does it mean in terms of game mechanics?

MAPs, rolls and the like. How are the rules for fire-linked weapons regarding that? (or where can I find them?)

[vanir]

Okay let's say you've got two laser cannons of the same type, 2D fire control and 4D damage. One is on the port side, one is on the starboard side and both facing the front firing arc. As separate installations each has its own gunnery station and crew member.

Normally you can use coordinated fire between the two using combined action rules, both gunners coordinate their fire and instead of making two separate rolls for attack and damage, you roll once with a +1D bonus. Now both guns together have +1D attack and 5D damage whilst coordinated, if the command to coordinate is successful (a gunnery control officer is now needed to combine them).

Now your two laser cannon equipped freighter has a gunnery crew of 3, with two emplacements on the frontal arc. With this layout you can fire them as a battery of combined fire on one target with +1D bonus all rolls or fire individually as separate weapons at different targets using normal dice. And you have someone with command skill dice to combine the two as requested by the pilot or situation. You must however adjust your crew/passenger listing for this ship to compensate for having 3 places taken up by gunnery crew.

Without modifying the weapons themselves (and gaining mishap modifiers) you can cut down gunnery crew requirements from 3 back to 1 by installing a fire control firelinking system that combines both weapons to the same gunnery station and a single crewman. He loses the attack bonus for coordinated fire but retains the damage bonus when the weapons are firelinked. So they do +1D damage at the normal attack rating of a single gunner. But each attack no longer has to be coordinated with a command skill roll by a gunnery officer because both guns are already coordinated electronically. The most obvious benefit is, without mishap modifiers your YT-1300 now has a crew/passenger listing of 1 pilot plus 1 optional copilot who can man the gunnery station and 6 passengers, whereas the other way you need 1 pilot plus 1 optional copilot, 3 gunnery crew (1 officer and 2 gunners) and only 3-4 regular passengers (4 if your copilot is a qualified gunnery officer or can be one of the gunners, ie. has good command skill or is one of the gunners) to keep the same consumables listing. Both ways when firing on one target the damage is 5D instead of 4D, but fewer crew requirements can be better.

This is a firelinked setup.

Obviously 1 man starfighters make common use of fire linking multiple weapons on the same fire arcs.

I do maintain cluster mountings as batteries function a little differently than fire linked batteries from separate locations.

[Quetzacotl]

So, the two fire-linked Blaster Cannons, who do 4D+1 damage, do 5D+1 damage because they shoot on the same target (because they are fire-linked), but the gunner (in this case most likely the co-pilot) only rolls an unmodified Starship Gunnery roll to determine if he hits? (btw. im referring to stats written here)

[vanir]

Strictly speaking, yes...where a solid system of starship engineering is being recognised and used. But the thing to keep in mind the different sources of WEG fan material means some authors may neither recognise nor understand a common system of engineering framework for game purposes. Most authors generally use existing ships as a basic guideline but some really go off the rails from there.

I use one and clear the board of the fanmade starships that defy it grossly (giving them "unsuccessful prototype" status or just altering their written stats to a logical common system), so that Players can see a working mathematical system in starship engineering and can work with simple common guidelines in ship modification or construction, including quite complicated and impressive projects that do work in game.

In the case of the YV-100 here the weapons are really more double cluster mounts than fire linked. There would normally be no need to state "fire linked" but simply list them as "double blaster cannon" and "twin laser cannon".

I would also alter the stats on the "double blaster cannon" thusly:
fire arc: partial turret (front, right, left)
crew: 1
skill: starship gunnery
fire control: 2D
space range: 1-5/12/25
atmospheric range: 100-500/1.2/2.5km
damage: 4D+1

Whether the blaster turret is operated from the cockpit or a gunport is unclear, but in either case while it was being used, due to the ship layout it appears to me to require a dedicated gunner. The frontal laser cannon I would say can be fired by the pilot or copilot.
Also, because they are described as "fire linked" by the author, generally this means that the stats as written are for the weapons already linked up. You don't then add another damage dice unless specified in the description.

Ultimately these details are up to the ruling of a GM in any particular game, but that's where I come down.

[Quetzacotl]

ah ok, thanks a lot for the info

[garhkal]