GM doing all the work and tired of it!

[Bigkrieg]

Hello fellow Gms

I have a question concerning how everyone who has ever been a GM handles players who put little to no effort into learning the game.

I have been Gming for this group of friends for several years now. A couple of them put absolutely no effort into learning the rules or the basic game mechanics. 2 out of the 4 have been playing the game with me off and on for about 15 years and know it fairly well but the other 2 do not. I should also mention that we only play once every month or so and the 2 that are not learning the rules, have only been played 1 other campaign. However, that campaign was weekly for about an entire year while in college.

I am getting tired of telling them how to use character points, how to increase skills, how modifiers work, MAPs etc.

At the same time, everyone really enjoys playing. I just get tired of doing all of the work.

Any suggestions?

[ZzaphodD]

How can you play this game more than twice and NOT learn the rules?

To be fair, most of us have played this game on and off (at one time off for more than 10 yrs) since the beginning of the 90s.

But a couple of the players have recently joined, and they picked up the rules in a couple of games by just playing it...

Are you sure youre not doing D20?
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[Lancil]

You should make up a "cheet sheet" of the most frequantly asked questions with answers. and give it to them the next time you play. Mabe that would help?

[CRMcNeill]

There is also the potential of willful ignorance. They could be trying to pull one over on you by making you do all the work in the hopes that you will make a mistake that is advantageous to their characters.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

Or cause you DO always teach them, they figure "Why bother learning it.. the DM will just do it for us.
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[cheshire]

Keep an extra rulebook handy. I got tired of people asking me "What does [x force power] do again?" So I just made a black binder with a summary of all of the force powers. When they would ask me, I would hand them the folder.

A "cheat sheet folder" of basic or commonly asked rules might help. It takes some time on the front end, but in the end it gives them some responsibility for figuring it out or looking it up on their own.
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[lurker]

[garhkal]

Now some may lambast me for saying this, but one way to reign this in, is in the XP/CP you hand out. In the rule book it says 1cp for LEARNING something. Since they are obviously not showing that they are learning anything, do not award them that CP..
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[Guardian_A]

I've tought a 6 year old how to play the game in an afternoon. So I expect that anyone who wants to learn the game, can learn the game.

As mentioned above, a cheat sheet is a good place to start. I have a one page cheat sheet that I hand out to all my players (Front and back). It has the round sequence explained in detail. The basic combat information. An explanation of CPs and FPs. And a "References" list that lists every major piece of information about the game, along with the page number for where you can find that information. I give out the cheat sheet at the end of the players first gaming session, and once its been passed out, they are primarily responsible for finding their own answers. In addition, I encourage my players to help each other when questions come up (Sometimes even going so far as giving out an extra CP to exceptionally helpful players.)

garhkal has a good point about the CP handouts as well. This is the current list of questions I have for our group at the end of each session:
1 Automatic
1 Favorite Part of the Game
1 Least Favorite Part of the Game
1 Character Learned
1 Player Learned
1 Helped another player with a difficult rules question
1 Role-Playing
1 Powerful Enemy Defeated
1 Using an Advantage/Special Ability in a New Way
1 Accomplished a Character Goal
1 Worked Well Together
1 What are your character’s immediate goals
1 Furthered the Story in a Significant Way
1 MVP
+5 Finished a Story

For some people, giving out character points is a simple thing "6 CPs to everyone!" But our group turns it into about a half hour Q&A session. We find it to be a very rewarding experience. The players let me know what they did and didnt like (This way I can plan my future games in a way that the players will have more fun.) And it incourages them to work as a group and help each other. I've known a few people who have used a similar system with a lot of success, and I've known a few people who have tried it and didnt care for it. It might be worth trying for a few sessions.

[mdlake]

When players exceed my patience with yet another repetition of "So what do I roll, again?" I put on my high school math teacher's hat and get all Socratic on their asses.

So what do you want to do, exactly?
Escape the bad guys. And what specific action is your character performing to help make that happen?
Okay, drive your vehicle through a crowded market. Do you have a skill on your character sheet that might help perform tricky vehicular maneuvers?
That's right: "drive vehicle" helps you drive vehicles.
So what's your skill in "drive vehicle"?
Fifteen. So if your skill is fifteen, what number would you normally want to roll under?
Well, your skill in "drive vehicle" is fifteen. So what number would you normally want to roll under to drive a vehicle?
Fifteen. That's right. Normally, you'd try to roll under a fifteen to match your "drive vehicle" skill of fifteen. But I just told you that this is a hard maneuver, so there's a -5 penalty. If your skill is fifteen, and you have a -5 penalty, what are you really trying to roll under?
Your skill is fifteen, and there's a -5 penalty. So what number--
That's right, ten. Okay, big boy, roll 'em.

Getting Socratic addresses the ancient adage "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I learn." And it works.

(Embarrassment probably plays an important motivational role, too--which in no way is meant to advocate shaming techniques in a high school math class, among insecure adolescents, where the shame is delivered from the teacher's position of authority. That's something very different. Socratic method in a high school math class needs a different spin.)

[garhkal]

Thanks guardian. I have been in several games where cause a player was sounding like the OP's, the DM handed out LESS XP to them to reflect their inability to grasp the rules continually..
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[Whill]

[DougRed4]

I was going to suggest the "cheat sheet", but others beat me to it. It doesn't look like we can attach documents, so shoot me a PM and I'd be glad to send a few cheat sheets your way. None of them are ones I've made, but they're all pretty good at encapsulating most of the most important rules, skills, and stuff one needs to know to play.

[Volar the Healer]

Don't.

Seriously, don't teach them. Let their charactes be killed repeatedly. If they can't remember what a force power does, let their Jedi stand there trying to remember. After a few games of failure after failure, they'll be motivated to learn.

Skipping players in the middle of a blaster battle worked very well for me. When the player said "What should I do?" I, as director, responded "Torwin stands there with his jaw hanging open in shock at the carnage going on around him. Kreggor, what are YOU doing?" It only took a few times being skipped (because battle does not wait for the players) to jump start the players into being more active.

I don't believe the players need to know the rules. But their characters don't get those advantages.
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[garhkal]

Well said.. And if you feel flat out skipping them is harsh, just give them say a 10 count to decide an action.. and count it out on your fingers!
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