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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: Ion Cannon vs. Shields Optional Rule |
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I have never liked the WEG presumption that shields did not block ion cannon weaponry, but I've had difficulty coming up with a rule I liked that didn't require a major stat rewrite. I think I may have finally found something that works.
-Simply put, shields can block ion cannon up to a point, but are highly vulnerable to ion effects. In game terms, ion cannon shots initially attack just the shields, much like shield-buster torpedoes. This allows ion cannon to strip away a target's shields (making other weapons more effective) rather than simply ignoring them.
-When firing ion cannon against a shielded target, the ion cannon will roll full damage against the target's Shield dice x2. Any Controls Ionized results are treated as Shields Blown applied against the Shield x2 total. For every 2D of Blown Shields results, apply a -1D penalty to the ship's Shield dice. Once the shields have been reduced to 0D, revert to standard rules for ion cannon, with any overage Shields Blown results applied as Controls Ionized.
-Controls Ionized / Shields Blown effects wear off at a rate of 1D per round, but a ship must reduce its Controls Ionized penalty to -0D before its shields can begin to recharge.
-For the purposes of resolving both normal and ionization attacks on shields, apply any ionization penalties at the beginning of the next round.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mikael Hasselstein
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 810
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't you like the idea that ion cannons bypass shields? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | Why don't you like the idea that ion cannons bypass shields? |
Because it doesn't make sense to me that ion cannon can pass through shields completely unaffected while nothing else can.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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So a ship which has 3d shields by your write up would now get 6d in resistance against Ion cannons. Are ion cannons boosted in power any< since to get around that 6d damage level you need a quad medium/heavy ion cannon..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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No, but the ion cannon will be rolling only against the 6D (instead of Hull +6D) until the shields drop, at which point they function like normal.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | | Why don't you like the idea that ion cannons bypass shields? |
Because it doesn't make sense to me that ion cannon can pass through shields completely unaffected while nothing else can. |
But tons of things can. Visible light, and therefor any true laser in the visible spectrum. Whatever sensors radiate. Objects can pass through the energy shield, and are only stopped by the particle shield.
It seems to me that energy shields are designed to stop one thing: blaster technology. They stop mostly that, but also other bolts and blasts of similar composition.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Ion Cannon vs. Shields Optional Rule |
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| crmcneill wrote: | I have never liked the WEG presumption that shields did not block ion cannon weaponry, but I've had difficulty coming up with a rule I liked that didn't require a major stat rewrite. I think I may have finally found something that works.
-Simply put, shields can block ion cannon up to a point, but are highly vulnerable to ion effects. In game terms, ion cannon shots initially attack just the shields, much like shield-buster torpedoes. This allows ion cannon to strip away a target's shields (making other weapons more effective) rather than simply ignoring them.
-When firing ion cannon against a shielded target, the ion cannon will roll full damage against the target's Shield dice x2. Any Controls Ionized results are treated as Shields Blown applied against the Shield x2 total. For every 2D of Blown Shields results, apply a -1D penalty to the ship's Shield dice. Once the shields have been reduced to 0D, revert to standard rules for ion cannon, with any overage Shields Blown results applied as Controls Ionized.
-Controls Ionized / Shields Blown effects wear off at a rate of 1D per round, but a ship must reduce its Controls Ionized penalty to -0D before its shields can begin to recharge.
-For the purposes of resolving both normal and ionization attacks on shields, apply any ionization penalties at the beginning of the next round. |
Let's see if I have the right read on your intentions with this:
You want ion weapons to "not ignore shields" - specifically to have to go through shields first and strip them away before they can affect the ship (which will also soften the ship up for other weapons). Right?
I think there's an easier way to do this. I'm using this rule for my own game. What I did, is change all the damage results in the ion weapons damage table from "controls ionized" to "shields blown/controls ionized". So that, if the ship has any shileds left, hits from ion weapons must strip them away first, taking the "shields blown" part of the damage result, and only once all shield dice are gone may they take any remaining/new damage levels as "controls ionized". Shield dice still don't add to the ship's soak against ion weapons, but stronger shields are still better, because they give the ship more shield dice the ion weapons must strip away before it's performance can be affected.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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I considered that method but ultimately decided it against because I wanted the shield strength to be a factor in resisting the ion cannon shot. Using the method described, the ion cannon roll against the Hull, not the Shields, and I wanted a way to resist damage, not just add a layer of soak to the Hull.
I may rethink my method and come up with a chart or something...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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An alternate, simpler method would be to say the ion cannons attack just the shield dice, but roll at -2D Damage, then revert to normal damage when the shields are down.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:10 am Post subject: |
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So a standard Y wing (already rolling only 4d damage) is going to be rolling 2d damage against any target.
What happens if a target has no shields?
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | What happens if a target has no shields? |
Standard rules and stats would apply.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| This idea would clash with what we see in Empire, where the big ion gun knocks out a Star Destroyer, which was the reason why the RAW had ion guns bypass shields in the first place. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | This idea would clash with what we see in Empire, where the big ion gun knocks out a Star Destroyer, which was the reason why the RAW had ion guns bypass shields in the first place. |
My interpretation of that scene is that the first shot hit with enough power to completely overload the ISD's shields, plus enough left over to cause at least 1 Controls Ionized result, with the second shot finishing it off.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | This idea would clash with what we see in Empire, where the big ion gun knocks out a Star Destroyer, which was the reason why the RAW had ion guns bypass shields in the first place. |
My interpretation of that scene is that the first shot hit with enough power to completely overload the ISD's shields, plus enough left over to cause at least 1 Controls Ionized result, with the second shot finishing it off. |
And how would that happen in play? How do you handle "left over" damage with your variant? Can you show me how it would work? Does the target ship get a Hull roll to rest? Does the attacking ship loose any damage dice for blowing down the shields, or does it roll full damage again? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | And how would that happen in play? |
Well, I haven't come up with a rule that I am truly comfortable with, but the basic idea is that any ion cannon attacks against shielded targets role exclusively against the shield dice until the Shields are reduced to 0D. I've considered a couple methods of shifting shield or damage dice values to make the rolls more equal, but whichever way I shift it, something ends up getting thrown off. I may just leave it as it is and allow ion cannon to do normal damage rolls against shields, since no ship mounted ion cannon in the RAW has a Damage of more than 4D.
| Quote: | | How do you handle "left over" damage with your variant? Can you show me how it would work? Does the target ship get a Hull roll to rest? Does the attacking ship loose any damage dice for blowing down the shields, or does it roll full damage again? |
As with the above, I've considered a couple methods, but haven't settled on one that I'm comfortable with. Any method I've thought of for dealing with subsequent damage ends up too complicated. Simply carrying over any excess Ionized results is inequitable because the ship's Hull dice should be a factor in the degree to which the "left over" Ionization damage effects the ship.
At the moment, I'm leaning toward not allowing bleed-over damage and simply saying that, even if an ion cannon does inflict additional Ionization results, they were sufficiently dispersed by the shields that they dissipate harmlessly against the shields, and subsequent ion cannon attacks are needed to disable the ship. However, Ionization "over-damage' can still have a continued effect:-The general idea is that a ship's Shield dice be tracked into negative numbers. Ionization effects would roll off at a rate of 1D per round, so a Star Destroyer with 3D shields reduced to -2D would have no shields for the next three rounds while its shield generators bled off the excess energy.
-In addition, any shield generator reduced below the negative value of its original Shield Dice would actually blow out its shield generator, requiring repair before it can be used again. Applying this method in the case of the ion cannon vs. star destroyer sequence, we get the following:-First Shot: Ion Cannon rolls 12D against Star Destroyer's 3D Shields for a Damage roll of 31 (using the 2D=7 rule). This goes off the chart for Ion Damage, but since that chart uses a base of 1 Controls Ionized per 4 points of Damage (starting at 0), 32 points of damage equals 8 Controls Ionized results. This deals a -8D penalty to the Star Destroyer's shields, knocking them down to -5D. Since that is below the -3D threshold, the Star Destroyer's shields blow out completely and must be repaired before they can be used again (and I am considering using the number by which the shield generator was blown out to increase the time and difficulty level of the repair).
-Second Shot: Ion Cannon now rolls 12D against the Star Destroyer's 7D Hull, for a Damage Roll of 17 (again, using the 2D=7 rule), for a Controls Dead Result. The end result is that, even with shields being able to stop ion cannon effects, the Star Destroyer is still disabled because the KDY v-150 has enough brute force to overpower its defenses.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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