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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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 Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: First Aid/Medicine |
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I was wandering why the First Aid/Medicine skills are under Technical not Knowledge? The main thing about taking care of other, surgeries etc. is a knowledge of human/alien body, physiology and dozens of things learned from Medicine schools and practice. Its far more connected with Knowledge: Scholar than Technical things like electricity, optics, mechanics or computers.
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Nico,
Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: Re: First Aid/Medicine |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | | I was wandering why the First Aid/Medicine skills are under Technical not Knowledge? The main thing about taking care of other, surgeries etc. is a knowledge of human/alien body, physiology and dozens of things learned from Medicine schools and practice. Its far more connected with Knowledge: Scholar than Technical things like electricity, optics, mechanics or computers. |
Its under Technical for 'Repairing Stuff'..(ie even living beings). 
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it under TEC since it is "fixing" things. An argument could be made for putting it under KNO.
But I wonder if the aurthors are saying that medicine is more automated in the SWU? Maybe Doctors don't need as much medical knoweldge with medical droid around, and medicine is more about operating the right machinery? |
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: |
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An argument can be made that fixing a robot and living being is a bit different. I recommend a Futurama episode when Fry is sent to psychiatric hospitals for robots  .
I think that wounds from grenades and melee weapons are still treated more less the way they are now unless each medical kit has a Holy Grail from the Indiana Jones movie  . Blaster wounds are for sure different, but if you have to replace body element's you still have to rely on surgery that is hardly to change. It can be improved using new instruments as in Deux Ex world, the doctor can be replaced with an AI robot like in SW, but you still have to make cut - operate - sew actions.
In the book MedStar I: Battle Surgeons there is a description of hear transplant. I haven't read it, but perhaps someone who had can share a brief info about it?
The info from here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trephination suggest that the opening procedure is more less the same as it is in our world.
In short - tools may be better, doctors may be replaced with robots, but the work looks to be still the same as the guys did in MASH.
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Nico,
Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | An argument can be made that fixing a robot and living being is a bit different. I recommend a Futurama episode when Fry is sent to psychiatric hospitals for robots .[/qupte]
Quite a good argument at that. A similar argument could be made against Beast Riding being listed under MEC.
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I think that wounds from grenades and melee weapons are still treated more less the way they are now unless each medical kit has a Holy Grail from the Indiana Jones movie . Blaster wounds are for sure different, |
More like medpacs could have a minicomputer that does the diangotics and decides what chemicals to use.
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but if you have to replace body element's you still have to rely on surgery that is hardly to change. It can be improved using new instruments as in Deux Ex world, the doctor can be replaced with an AI robot like in SW, but you still have to make cut - operate - sew actions. |
Not it a droid does it for you. In the films it is always droids doing the medical work.
In the book MedStar I: Battle Surgeons there is a description of hear transplant. I haven't read it, but perhaps someone who had can share a brief info about it?
The info from here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trephination suggest that the opening procedure is more less the same as it is in our world.
In short - tools may be better, doctors may be replaced with robots, but the work looks to be still the same as the guys did in MASH.[/quote]
Maybe. Your armament certainly holds water. There is more than one questionable skill placement. Beat Riding, Intimidation and Willpower also make me wonder. |
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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If a droid doctor does it instead of living doctor, the only difference is that he has "faster" brain and perception, and all the tools are part of his "hands". But the operation procedure is still the same.
Oh, I have already moved Intimidation to Perception, Willpower to Knowledge and Beast Riding to Dexterity. Now wondering about First Aid/Medicine.
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Nico,
Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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Barrataria
Commander
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Republic of California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: tech/mech |
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I always assumed that because there was so much technology used in the SW universe that it made more sense to resolve the skill via Tech. Even today there's an awful lot of manipulation of arthroscopes, sonogram machines, blah blah...
I guess that said I'm glad in my d6 Space game I collapse Mech and Tech together. I always thought differentiating between the two was sort of weird, and a lot of the SW skills seem like they can be collapsed into "droid programming/repair" and so forth. Also, it seemed in SW (Serenity, too, now that I think about it) that most pilots had at least a passing knowledge of their ship's systems and very minor abilities to effect repairs. So mashing Mech/Tech together has worked well.
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Technology is a blend of Knowledge and Dexterity. All of the Technical skills require a large Knowledge component. But they all require delicate work as well. You can't be a bomb technician if you only know the theories on how to disable a bomb, you have to be able to do it as well. Same with medicine. Knowing how to do it and doing it are two different things.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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Nico_Davout
Commander
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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Nico,
Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | Technology is a blend of Knowledge and Dexterity. All of the Technical skills require a large Knowledge component. But they all require delicate work as well. You can't be a bomb technician if you only know the theories on how to disable a bomb, you have to be able to do it as well. Same with medicine. Knowing how to do it and doing it are two different things. |
Good point. I had a boss who was an electrical engieer (still is) who would pass on some of the more difficult assembly/repair jobs to me (a lowly electronics technican) just beucase I has better eye-hand coodination (DEX). DEX is really helpful when soldering MS connectors, circuit boards, and when doing rework. My boss knew where everything was supposed to go, but actually soldering a 15 or 30 pin cable correctly without shorting something out or breaking off a wire was tricky.
But is it is a combination of knowledge (KNO) and dexterity (DEX) should TEC be a derrived stat (average of DEX and KNO)? Pretty much all skills are a similar combination. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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The only time Know has made an impact imo with that skill is when USING it on an alien.. then they need to roll their Alien species imo before hand to see if they know enough about that alien's philology before they use their first aid/medicine.
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Barrataria
Commander
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Republic of California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | The only time Know has made an impact imo with that skill is when USING it on an alien.. then they need to roll their Alien species imo before hand to see if they know enough about that alien's philology before they use their first aid/medicine. |
That's pretty sweet.... if they tank the Aliens roll, do you wait until after the Med roll to tell them they've accidentally performed a liverectomy instead of an appendectomy? 
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"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing"- George Lucas |
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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"That goo does not look like a liver...."
"Pull it out anyway!"
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Its not how i actually use it, but how i have seen some gms in the past use it.. this way they made the alien speices skill actually usable.
IIRC it was something like
No use of AS prior to medicine/first aid, gave a +10 penalty to the roll.
Used but failed AS roll, +5 penalty.
Made roll by 5 or less for AS.. no penalty to first aid/medicine.
Made roll by 6-10, +5 to the FA/M roll..
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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PC: Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor not a bricklayer!
Oops, wrong setting. How 'bout
Han:Dammit Chewie, I'm a smnuggler, not a Vetinarian!
Chewbacca: Urh-grawl
Han: Yeah, but you need two good arms to rip mine out of the socket and you went and got shot in one of yours. So stop moaning and remeber to dodge next time.
Chewbacca: Uk-nar-grosh-Ek
Han: So where did that burn mark come from? If you got hit you did not dodge, did you? Hey! What this? Well, I hope it wasn't important 'cuz youy don't have it anymore. Funny place for an appendix. |
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