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How would you handle this trap?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: How would you handle this trap? Reply with quote

OK, say the pcs are on a Jedi lore hunt and one of the places they go to is an old abandoned temple.. part of the protections the temple has is a nasty looking pit / chain trap..

Chains and the Pit
Set Up: The party finds a 100 foot square chamber with no floor, just a near bottomless pit. From the ceiling hang 10' long chains, spread out 10' from each other in a grid. Along the near and far sides is a 5' ledge. On the far ledge is a door leading to the next area. If the party investigates, they will see that some of the chains are missing.
Trap: The pit can be crossed by swinging from chain to chain. Certain chains are rigged to fail if grabbed, causing the character to plummet into the pit.
Effect: The first row of chains are all "solid", and are easily reachable from the near ledge. The chains are not long enough to reach each other by swinging; a character must leap during the swing to reach the next chain. An unencumbered character should have no trouble performing the act, while a character who is lightly, moderately, or heavily encumbered must make a dexterity check (and +4, 0, and -4 penalties) for each swing or fall. There are 72 chains (9 rows of 8 chains), with no chain 10' from the side walls. 2d4 chains are missing when the chamber is found, and 2d6 are "false" chains that will snap if grasped.

Example of the trap, with blue dots representing "Solid" chains and red dots representing "False" chains that will snap if grasped.



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Last edited by garhkal on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Have a Force user with TK pull on the next chain to see if it is a false one or not.\

-Use a climbing harness to link the character onto the chain that is already proven to be solid. They swing out, grab ahold of the next chain, then rest their full weight on it to see if it is solid. If it holds, they keep going. If it falls, they are still tied off to a secure chain by the climbing harness.

As an added bonus to the second suggestion, the most experienced climber of the group can make the crossing first and leave a line behind, indicating the correct path and also making it easier to get to the next chain (pull it to you instead of jumping across).
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Set Up: The party finds a 100 foot square chamber with no floor, just a near bottomless pit. From the ceiling hang 10' long chains, spread out 10' from each other in a grid. Along the near and far sides is a 5' ledge. On the far ledge is a door leading to the next area. If the party investigates, they will see that some of the chains are missing.

Trap: The pit can be crossed by swinging from chain to chain. Certain chains are rigged to fail if grabbed, causing the character to plummet into the pit.


unless my math is wrong, good chance of it, but dont the chains need to be longer than 10 feet if theyre 10 feet apart in order to swing from one to the next? i understand the whole swinging from the bottom of the chain idea (arm lengths and all), but not everyone is that great at swinging from the bottom of a chain, and not many have t6he upper body strength to do it either...


id use the TK trick with a jedi going across and setting up a make-shift bridge with the secure chains so the rest of the party can follow. also a jet pack/rocket pack or some kind of repulsorlift might be very useful in this situation.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than a DEX check, the skill to swing and jump from one chain to the next should be Climbing/Jumping.

Swinging on one chain won't cause the chains to touch (unless someone can move the target chain closer as well - say with TK). That's why Climbing/Jumping would be required.
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, unless there's some indicator, such as broken links of chain hanging from the ceiling where the "missing" chains are, or a very slightly different look of the false chains vs. the real chains, you're going to have at least 1 dead PC if they try to get across the way you envision it. Without some indicator, there would be no reason for the PCs to think that some of the chains would be false and would cause them to plummet to their death.

If I had the right material, my method of tackling this would skirt the whole chain aspect. I'd have someone skilled in climbing, with the proper tools, cut out footholds and insert handholds along the wall and make my way over the gap on something that I KNOW is solid (the wall) rather than something that looks like it would be infinitely more difficult to attain by going the way that looks obvious.

Honestly, this whole trap smells strongly of a D&D dungeon crawl and the lack of forethought put into those. I'd have to ask, since this is a temple, why did the people have this in there? Were there threats that required it inside of their temple? If there weren't threats, why in the world would they have a room in the middle of their temple where they could plummet to their death if they guessed poorly? If they had to use the Force to get across every time so they wouldn't plummet to their death, then it simply fosters the idea of casual Force use and they'd just TK float across the gap every time they moved through the room.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:

Honestly, this whole trap smells strongly of a D&D dungeon crawl and the lack of forethought put into those. I'd have to ask, since this is a temple, why did the people have this in there? Were there threats that required it inside of their temple? If there weren't threats, why in the world would they have a room in the middle of their temple where they could plummet to their death if they guessed poorly?


I think you're looking too much into this. This is JUST like the atrium for our church. Smile
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I think you're looking too much into this. This is JUST like the atrium for our church. Smile
I want to join cheshire's church.

I agree that the trap aspect feels like an old style D&D dungeon. On the other hand, the idea of characters fighting (brawling, melee, or lightsabers) and dodging while swinging from chains appeals to me.

Some ways to address some of the problems Grimace outlined:
  • The temple is long abandoned. The ceiling is damp and dripping. The chains are rusty. Some of the retaining bolts in the ceiling (where the moisture originates) have rusted to the point of failure - only determinable by putting weight on them or pulling on them. We would still need to answer why the chains are there.
  • The "trap" aspect is part of some religious ritual. Initiates must memorize and traverse a correct path. The path itself has some religious significance e.g. it mirrors the path that some religious figure took in the past maybe climbing up some mountain, when viewed from below the position of the safe chain paths depicts religiously significant constellations, long ago the cult members lived in a giant forest (think Kashyyk) that is now long gone but the path mimics that of a vine path in that long ago jungle, or some other bizarre stuff.
  • The chains are part of the cult’s training regimen being some combination of obstacle course and danger room. The cult may even do combat training or bizarre duels here.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to have chains that will send someone to their death if grabbed, then I would suggest having a strange symbol or lighted panel before the room with the chains which outlines a safe path through.

Blue stones in the floor in the hallway perhaps making up some interesting design or whatever.

Is the pit actually bottomless? If the character grabs a chain that is "rigged to fail" do they get some sort of reaction to grab onto another chain? Is there some sort of roll that a player can make to spot a rigged chain? Do they get a climbing/jumping roll to grab the solid chains and avoid the rigged ones? Do you set down a grid with dots and have the players just describe the path they take through the room?

Jedi character could always use TK to lift themselves and hover through the room without grabbing a chain.

Quote:
2d4 chains are missing when the chamber is found, and 2d6 are "false" chains that will snap if grasped.


I think the 2d4 is what makes it really feel like an old D&D trapped room.
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Guardian_A
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont have a lot of time to post, so I'm just going to give my first thoughts for how to approach the room.

As a force user, I'd use Telekinesis to test the strength of each chain, and to pull it closer before jumping to it.

As a non-force user, I'd make a small grapling hook, something that could catch the links of the chain. That way I could give each chain a good tug, and pull it closer before jumping/swinging to it.

As others have said, you will want something about the room to tip off the characters. Maybe a broken chain, heavy rust on a chain, or something similar. Also, make a point of mentioning the missing chains in your description of the room. Between missing chains and broken/rusty chains, the characters should be able to figure out the room is dangerous and approach it with caution.

As for the D&D dungeon crawl aspect. I think its a lot of fun to run "Dungeon Crawls" from time to time. Especially when dealing with old temples! Just be sure that the rest of the Temple has a similar feel to it. Just one dangerous/puzzle room will seem out of place. Having a series of situations that the characters need to think their way through usually works better in my own experience.
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Downstrike
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An aside thought depending on what you have planned. The chains awaken ghosts of the temple. Bad chain bad ghost. Good chain good ghost.

As to all the falling stuff. My players learned a long time ago to carry lots of rope. They would most likely try to climb down the hole. Twisted Evil
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:

Honestly, this whole trap smells strongly of a D&D dungeon crawl and the lack of forethought put into those. I'd have to ask, since this is a temple, why did the people have this in there? Were there threats that required it inside of their temple? If there weren't threats, why in the world would they have a room in the middle of their temple where they could plummet to their death if they guessed poorly? If they had to use the Force to get across every time so they wouldn't plummet to their death, then it simply fosters the idea of casual Force use and they'd just TK float across the gap every time they moved through the room.


It was taken from one of the ADND sites i go to.. and as we see in many ADND modules and the like, there are many areas 'trapped' that to us may not seem to make sense for occupants.

Quote:
# The "trap" aspect is part of some religious ritual. Initiates must memorize and traverse a correct path. The path itself has some religious significance e.g. it mirrors the path that some religious figure took in the past maybe climbing up some mountain, when viewed from below the position of the safe chain paths depicts religiously significant constellations, long ago the cult members lived in a giant forest (think Kashyyk) that is now long gone but the path mimics that of a vine path in that long ago jungle, or some other bizarre stuff.
# The chains are part of the cult’s training regimen being some combination of obstacle course and danger room. The cult may even do combat training or bizarre duels here.


I like both of these options.. especially the former..

Quote:
If you're going to have chains that will send someone to their death if grabbed, then I would suggest having a strange symbol or lighted panel before the room with the chains which outlines a safe path through.


From reading the OP in the ADND site, it seems like the pit was around 100ft deep, sufficient to cause around 4d damage in SW rules...
But if it IS supposed to be some sort of trap/test to weed out the unfaithful, why would they have it marked ahead of time as to the safe route?

Quote:
If the character grabs a chain that is "rigged to fail" do they get some sort of reaction to grab onto another chain? Is there some sort of roll that a player can make to spot a rigged chain? Do they get a climbing/jumping roll to grab the solid chains and avoid the rigged ones? Do you set down a grid with dots and have the players just describe the path they take through the room?


My thoughts on these would be
Reaction roll to grab - yes, dex or climbing.
Roll to spot - search
Get roll to avoid the bad and only go the good - no, they would be describing their path.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a Jedi, Danger Sense would be helpful in avoiding the traps.
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Orgaloth
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetpack and fly over. Or a speeder if you can get one through the door.

Just my initial thoughts.
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