Modified Hull question on Falcon

[ebertran]

if a stock yt1300 has a hull of 4d, and per GG6 you can't modify a hull more than 1d+1, how is the Falcon a hull 6d?

[tetsuoh]

welcome to the beginning of the *star wars main characters are always more powerful than you even though according to the book you are HEROES* debate.

its often a subject of much anguish and name calling.

to put it simply - the falcon is a ship out of reach to most players.
Its modifications total up to outrageous expenses compared to what an average smuggler would make. but then he did win the already modified ship from lando who in canon is one hell of a businessman.

to put it in perspective - ask your gm that - thier responce will generally be one of two:

"because its the falcon." ~or~ "hmmm good question."

number one means your gm supports the idea that some things are outside your characters reach.

number two means your gm may support the notion that your group is just as much heroes as luke/han/chewy/leia and the rest - and will then come learn that a LOT of the west end games staff thought the other way round.

just my 2 cents.

personally - our group sees it the sensable way. The falcons hull was probably replaced with a higher grade metal to withstand better as well as being upgraded "per the rules" we allow actuall replacement of stuff in our games so long as the subject is canon.

kinda like saying well the hull of a stock yt is made of durasteel - i'm replacing that with phrik - or better yet - mandalorian iron!

which may seem a bit ridiculous but is canon and in our games the excuse for why sometimes things aren't "by the book".

[CRMcNeill]

Don't forget that the hull is not solely a measurement of how tough the ship's armor plating is. It represents how well a ship can resist damage, and a lot of factors contribute to that, such as reinforced framing, automated damage control systems, redundant backups, etc.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[ebertran]

I'm fine with the "because it's the Falcon" answer, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some sort of rule, supplement, errata, or explanation I had glossed over.

I'm not really a canon stickler, and I'm giving my players a crappy version of the Falcon as it is. My campaign is set before the movies and it'll tell a small part of the story of the ship, and why Vader is so obsessed with it.

They are getting a very stripped down version of it though. It's basically junked when they get their hands on it.

thanks for the answers!

[Raven Redstar]

There have been arguments made by certain people I've played with that 1D+2 cap is per active character who has owned the ship. If a character retires from adventuring, then bestows it onto the next generation, the new owner can then modify the ship a bit more.

There was one instance where the group ran a "Descendants" game, where each character played the child or grandchild of their old character. Specifically, the main "star" had his fathers old gun which had been custom engineered for him, then modified to max. I believe in that game, the GM was going to let the player modify the weapon more, of course at an increased cost. I think they kept and added together modification costs.

So the next user would be paying 65% of weapon cost to increase it his first pip.

I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but it kind of gives a new treasured value to family heirlooms.
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RR
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[garhkal]

How much has that allowed someone to mod a ship? 4 owners, that 1d+2 becomes 6d+2!!!
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Raven Redstar]

I suppose it would be up to GMs discretion, no one ever got beyond one generation of owners.
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RR
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[vanir]

In GG6 they explained how modifications described were only dealing with jury-rig style modifications and not re-engineering of the craft, it said that advanced starship engineering would be handled in later supplements but it never was.

With that in mind you can draw some simple conclusions by mixing old 1e and newer 2e rules and working with both advanced skill and regular jury rigging.
Okay the rule goes if you jury rig a ship (modify it using the space transports repair skill) you get a mishap modifier. The simplest difference to starship engineering as an advanced skill is no mishap modifer, so no real rooftop on modifications so long as you've got the money and the facilities to do it and you don't mind your YT winding up the size of a Corvette if you go too silly.

Some simple house rules to throw at you:
using space transports repair skill you have 1D+2 in steps with a mishap modifier.
using (A) space transports engineering you default back to 1e mod rules and you can go 1D (moderate), or 2D (difficult) with a max of 3D (very difficult) improvement on the basic structure, no mishap modifier but very expensive and may alter the appearance and structure of the vessel dramatically. Since it is a permanent increase with no mishap modifier we also use the old 1e rule that you must use CP along with the engineering roll in the same way as improving a skill, so if you want to add a permanent +1D to the basic hull, structure and particle shielding of a YT then you must spend 12CP and make a moderate advanced engineering roll, it takes about a month at a standard class or better starport facility with shipyards, and this becomes your new hull base for modification.

Now what we do is combine them. You can then take your reinforced 5D base hull YT and mod it using jury rig ruleset for up to 1D+2 improvement on that. But to keep mishaps down it's best not to go higher than +1D on jury rigs.
Using that combination of house rules, combining 1e and 2e systems and adapting them for jury rig and engineering house rules, you actually get a YT with the same stats as the Falcon that acts a lot like the Falcon in gameplay. It replicates it really well, and also provides a system for PCs to mod the bejesus out of their starships with, that isn't a gamebreaker and works on a solid framework. It isn't a gamebreaker because the CP cost to re-engineer your starship keeps it within reason. The ultiimate starship could be engineered, but that PC would spend all their CP on the ship and none on skills, it'd cost them something like 100CP to go insane on it, that keeps it under wraps by itself. But a smart hero like Han Solo could spend a few CP on the ship re-engineering and combine this with jury rig modifications, to get very high stats but only spend say 20-30CP making the ultimate starship...that has a few quirks...

[Ankhanu]