Jedi Powers

[Jatrell]

Hey all,

I'm new to the forums and to being GM so please bear with me. My friends and I are currently playing a game every saturday night. Something that is constantly come up in use of the force in defense of the group. I am under the impression that to use the force for anything other than knowledge and defence is a darkside point. But considering that Mace window force choked Grevious in the clone war animated cartoon (which Lucas made canon) and Yoda stopped the pod Sidious threw at him and returned it would seem to be causing a murky area for our weekly debates. Any ideas would be helpfull. Thank you

Ja'trell

[Guardian_A]

A lot of powers state clearly that they generate a Dark Side point when used. For those powers, I almost always give a Dark Side point when my players use that power.

With other powers, its more of a judgement call. As a GM, I tend to look at the characters intent/motivation for using the power. If their intent is fueled by anger, selfishness, or revenge, its probably going to generate a Dark Side Point. If their actions are fueled by more noble intentions, its probably going to be ok.

[Jatrell]

Awesome man. Thank you for the advice. I just know that there are some murky areas. I will definately try to be a little easier on them with Force push and things like that.
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Experience is the excuse everyone gives for their mistakes

[Bren]

The WEG rules were written prior to the prequel trilogies and way prior to the Clone Wars TV show. As such, the DSP mechanic does not really fit well with the much more active force use seen in the prequels and especially the TV show. Force push is one of the best examples. We only see Vader using force push and telekinetic kill in the original trilogy. Hence in the WEG rules it gets you a DSP for using telekinetic powers to do damage. It seems that in the prequels and TV show era the rules for getting a DSP are a bit more lax - or else nearly all the Jedi we see have DSPs.

This is a topic of many threads and discussions here on the forum.

[garhkal]

True... we see all sorts of DSP gaining actions by our heroic jedi in the prequals.. From Obi and Quigon force pushing droids (TK) to causing someone to effectively go out of business (watto... though i am not sure if that counts)..
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Zarm R'keeg]

Some might say that this is simply because the Prequels and Clone Wars have a far inferior portrayal and morality to the OT...

Personally, I feel that (as I've been putting together a general guide on this myself lately) when the Force is used to defend others- even violently (so long as it is necessary, not gratuitous) it does not generate a Dark Side point. If it is used unnecessarily for violence (to kill someone that could have been nonviolently subdued, for instance) then it does generate a DSP. If it is used for violence as a first resort instead of a last, that would also be a DSP.

In the end, though, I think the biggest rule of thumb I use is: "Anger, fear, agression" usage generates a DSP, and in dispassionate situations (my players aren't always good with expressing realistic emotions), if the Force is being used selfishly, it is most likely to be dark side. If it used used with the thought of serving others, even if it is taking life to defend them, it is usually not.
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Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[cheshire]

You'll find all sorts of different justifications either for revisions of the rules or defenses of the RAW. Where there are 5 users, you'll find 6 different opinions on the subject.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Zarm R'keeg]

Which could probably said of Star Wars fans and opinions on the Force in general.
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[garhkal]

But we all agree on one thing.. Starwars is COOL!
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Zarm R'keeg]

That we do, and that it is!
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[Volar the Healer]

The Force recognizes the need to defend oneself. It is not evil to defend oneself or others. This is why the Jedi can use their powers to defend others violently. Violence is not evil; initiating violence unjustly is. Life creates the Force. To kill a mass murderer weakens the force. To not kill a mass murderer weakens it more when he continues murdering again and again. The Jedi understand this.

The question you are asking is the difference between assault and self defense. The man who assaults another with a knife to rob him is commiting evil. The man who shoots the knife wielding attacker in self defense is not.

Killing soldiers during wartime to defend your people is not evil. Starting a war to take something that does not belong to you is evil. The one who starts an unjust war is responsible for ALL the deaths and suffering that result - including those inflicted by the rightous defenders.

The jedi in your examples did not initiate violence; they returned the violence to those who initiated it. Deflecting blaster shots back to the shooter, tossing back grenades with telekenesis, and other uses of the force are not evil.

A Sith concentrating hate until it bursts from his hands as lightining is always evil because of how the force power is generated. Absorbing it and sending it back to the Sith is not - that's just redirecting the Sith's hate back to where it came from. But, this is why some powers always give dark side points to those who use them.

Droids are not alive, and hence not a part of the living force, so destroying them is no more a crime against the force than lifting stones. Note that general Grievious is a cyborg and not a droid. He is alive...a little bit, anyway. My Jedi lets loose against droids. He is horrified by such violence, but his player secretly enjoys it. (I didn't think that out loud, did I?)
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Know Jesus, Know Peace.
No Jesus, No Peace

[cheshire]

[Loc Taal]

[Volar the Healer]

[Bren]