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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:31 am Post subject: Instinctive Skills |
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I was reading back through some old posts on another topic and I cam across a conversation about the possibility of certain skills occurring automatically, as if the character using them simply does it without thinking, such as Darth Vader being intimidating, or a Intel Operative always on the alert and watching everything. I won't rehash the whole conversation, but it did make me think of an idea.
I think there is a definite difference on the Intimidation scale between Darth Vader just walking down a hallway and Darth Vader all up in a prisoner's face and actually trying to be intimidating. The same could be said for other skills, mostly Perception skills, but others may fit. The idea I have bouncing around is that, at level-up between missions, a character could choose to buy an "Instinctive" skill upgrade instead of improving his dice level. Once the character purchases the Instinctive upgrade, they can take an automatic 2 result on their skill dice every round as a free action.
For example, Vader, with his 11D Intimidation, is a good example of someone who is instinctively intimidating. With this rule, he exudes an automatic aura of Intimidation, equal to 2 for every 1D of his skill level. In other words, Vader automatically passes Intimidation checks up to Difficult level (22), just by being Vader. He can still amp up the pressure to become even more intimidating, but only by rolling his Intimidation skill as a standard action.
Intimidation is an obvious example, but I can also see this being applied to Search. Other skills might be possibilities, but I haven't really looked at them yet...
Thoughts? _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Fallon Kell Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011 Posts: 1846 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Would you go into the details for buying the upgrade? _________________ Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Fallon Kell wrote: | Would you go into the details for buying the upgrade? |
I was thinking a set CP cost, like 10 or 20, but I hadn't settled on an exact number when I wrote up the idea. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14226 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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If i could get behind this, i would not apply it to actively pushed skills (like search or intimidation).. When i think of an instinctive skill, i think like swimming should be for a fisherman, or cultures for a bar tender.. Something that fits in the backround and skill set for the person.
It would definitely not apply to any combat related skill. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | If i could get behind this, i would not apply it to actively pushed skills (like search or intimidation).. When i think of an instinctive skill, i think like swimming should be for a fisherman, or cultures for a bar tender.. Something that fits in the backround and skill set for the person. | garhkal, this definition of instinctive seems to better fit species specific activities like walking for a human, swimming for Mon Cal, flying for an ariel species, solving math equations for a Given, emitting pheromones for a Falleen or Zeltron, sensing electromagnetic emissions for a Gotal, etc. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. I read through the skill list and came up with a short list of skills that this would apply to, and the list is pretty short, and mostly from Perception. I included examples:
Intimidation (Vader. Need I say more?)
Command (Grande Admiral Thrawn, who was always described as having an "aura" of command about him).
Con or Persuasion (Someone with an aura of likeability or respectability about them, even when they aren't actively trying to convince anyone).
Search (For the highly trained Intel Agent or Commando who is always on alert, even in their sleep)
Sneak (For the same Agents and Commandos who have been trained to blend into their background so well that it is practically second nature).
I pretty much limited "Instinctive" to things that a character could potentially do without doing anything. All my choices are debatable, IMO, but this is what I was thinking. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14226 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I am still not seeing search or sneak being able to be 'instinctive'.. same with con or command.. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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garhkal wrote: | I am still not seeing search or sneak being able to be 'instinctive'.. same with con or command.. |
Well, I equate Instinctive Search with people who are always alert, always noticing details that other people miss. Mostly I think it would be a trait for Intel Agents, who have been trained to always always ALWAYS have their guard up.
Instinctive Sneak would be those people who just seem to naturally blend into their environment. A good example would be Lieutenant Paige in Heir to the Empire; in the opening scenes, he was Han's true backup, while Wedge Antilles acted as the decoy.
I think the best example of Instinctive Command would be Grand Admiral Thrawn, who was constantly described as practically radiating an aura of Command, that you knew without a doubt that he was in charge.
IMO, Con or Persuasion would be one of those people who just radiate trustworthiness (warranted or not), and a person's natural instinct is to trust what they say. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | Well, I equate Instinctive Search with people who are always alert, always noticing details that other people miss. Mostly I think it would be a trait for Intel Agents, who have been trained to always always ALWAYS have their guard up. | So a perfectly appropriate result for a complication when getting a 1 on the Instinctive Search wild die is that the Agent attributes a suspicious motive to what is actually a normal, mudance activity. And now the Intel Agent is following this guy. |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | So a perfectly appropriate result for a complication when getting a 1 on the Instinctive Search wild die is that the Agent attributes a suspicious motive to what is actually a normal, mudance activity. And now the Intel Agent is following this guy. |
Maybe. My original thought was that these skills would be so ingrained into the character that they would bypass Wild Die until a full skill roll was needed. A character with 5D Search would automatically succeed on any Easy Search roll, but the chance of Wild Die failure would come into play for Search difficulties above Easy, because those are the ones the character would have to roll for. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | Maybe. My original thought was that these skills would be so ingrained into the character that they would bypass Wild Die until a full skill roll was needed. A character with 5D Search would automatically succeed on any Easy Search roll, but the chance of Wild Die failure would come into play for Search difficulties above Easy, because those are the ones the character would have to roll for. | I've seen a lot of 5D skills rolls fail to make an Easy (6-10) difficulty, so I am less sanguine about automatic success with a zero chance of failures or complications. That seems like a huge advantage.
Saying Admiral Thrawn has 'an aura of command' is to me just a poetic way of saying he has a high command skill that is probably in part natural rather than learned. And I can't really conceive of how a character who is not a literal chameleon can blend in or go unnoticed without them doing something, i.e. making a roll.
I am struggling a bit to understand what the advantage is to adding 'instinctive skills.' Is it more that you are looking to add some sort of special ability like a D20 feat or is it more that there a gap in the existing rules that you see 'instinctive skills' fixing? |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's more of an outgrowth of a discussion that certain characters are so good at certain skills that they do them naturally, without any real need to act consciously. The specific example discussed was Vader being naturally Intimidating, so that in certain situations, he just automatically succeeded at being intimidating, without the need for a rule of any kind. It got me thinking about other possible skills that characters might embody so completely that they perform them without really thinking about it (up to a certain point). Of course, to achieve that level, they would have to pay a relatively high one-time CP cost (10-20CP, although I haven't decided yet...) _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010 Posts: 3868 Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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crmcneill wrote: | Of course, to achieve that level, they would have to pay a relatively high one-time CP cost (10-20CP, although I haven't decided yet...) | But if you are at or near Vader's level. It's not that expensive. It costs you 11 CPs to gain a 1 pip increase. Spending 20 CPs to be able to automatically do things with no MAP cost, no chance of failure at modest difficulties, and no chance of complication is a big advantage for a relatively low cost. Take Vader for example. He could spend 20 CPs to get instinctive intimidation and now he can intimidate anyone (and any number of beings) who cannot make a difficult willpower roll for free with no chance of failure or complication. Alternately he can raise his 11D intimidation to 11D+2. And he can scare basically all the same people as he could before. The more utilitarian choice seems obvious.
So do you see this more as a feat or as a fix? |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16325 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Bren wrote: | So do you see this more as a feat or as a fix? |
Not sure yet. Mostly just saw an idea that hadn't been covered in the original thread, but that had been long forgotten, and I wanted to see how it might play out. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 2460
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I can kina see the point here. In fact it touches on something I put in an email!
I can see someone like SHerlock Holmes always "keeping up" some PER skills. I'd probably lower the automatic level, say 1 pip per D. But I might keep the wild die as a kicker.
Another way to go might be to reduce the MAP peantliy. There is some RPG where there is a perk that gives a character a free PER roll een when they are not actively looking. Something like that could be applied to other abilties. Like Vader being Intimidating.
The problem I see with he automatic skill use isthat in many cases it wouldn't make sense. For instance if Vader wants to intimidate someone, his player is going to want to roll te dice and get the full roll. Unless the GM is giving away the difficulty numer and the PC can take the automatic success.
IMO this shouldn7t be something that is bought, but a natural effect of a very high skill. For example, someone with Computer Programming 12D should intrinctively look at some code and get an idea about it. Even if he isn't actively thinking about it. |
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