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dadofett
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: North Carolina, USA
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 Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: SAGA Classes to d6 Templates conversion |
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Fortunately, we only played SAGA a couple of times before we came to our senses and found WEG d6.
However, other role playing we have done (*cough* D&D) in addition to SAGA has always been class-based.
I totally embrace the class-less openness of d6, but I have to admit it is hard for my players to let go of "class-like-thinking".
I am hoping to bridge the gap by not just giving them tons of templates to choose from, but presenting them with 10 or so templates that somewhat correspond the archetypical classes (scout, rouge, soldier, noble, jedi, tech specialist, ace pilot, bounty hunter, etc)
Anybody know of "conversions" of the SAGA classes (and prestige classes) to templates, or can recommend a skinny-ed down list of templates to start with? |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the Pit!
First off, which books do you have? It would make suggestions easier to come up with instead of pointing you to a template in a book you don't have.
I'll list off a few template names to start with, and a reference.
Scout: Laconic Scout (Gamemaster's Screen Revised & Expanded)
Scoundrel: Smuggler or Gambler (Main Rulebook R&E)
Soldier: Merc (GM's Screen R&E) or Ex-Imperial Commando (Heroes & Rogues)
Noble: Noble in Exile (Heroes & Rogues)
Jedi: Minor Jedi or Failed Jedi (Main Book R&E)
Techie: Outlaw Tech (Heroes & Rogues) Weary Ship's Tech (Platt's Smuggler's Guide)
Pilot: Hot Shot Pilot (Platt's Smuggler's Guide) or Rookie New Republic Pilot (Main Rulebook R&E)
Bounty Hunter: Bounty Hunter (Main Rulebook R&E) 3 other bounty hunters (Galaxy Guide 10: Bounty Hunters)
Hope you find this helpful. There is a templates collection if I'm not mistaken somewhere on these forums in the Tools section, it has all of the templates I've mentioned.
Found it, I was mistaken, it's hosted on another website. You can find all the templates I've listed above and more. Good luck!
Template Collection
Last edited by Raven Redstar on Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TyCaine
Captain
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 515
Location: Florida, US
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the Pit!
As Raven mentions, knowing what you have as far as books go would make it easier, and I know the template collection he mentions is referenced from one of the pages on here, but what might make the search easier is to go here: Game Resources for the Star Wars D6 RPG
That site has many of the books created by the good folks here at Rancor Pit collected together for your enjoyment, and under Play Aids you'll find the Templates Collection Raven mentions. That PDF has all (IIRC) the templates from the various source books collected together in one place, making it invaluable in my mind!
T.C. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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There is also the Arrogant noble, old republic scout, alien student of the force...
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Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| TyCaine wrote: | Welcome to the Pit!
As Raven mentions, knowing what you have as far as books go would make it easier, and I know the template collection he mentions is referenced from one of the pages on here, but what might make the search easier is to go here: Game Resources for the Star Wars D6 RPG
That site has many of the books created by the good folks here at Rancor Pit collected together for your enjoyment, and under Play Aids you'll find the Templates Collection Raven mentions. That PDF has all (IIRC) the templates from the various source books collected together in one place, making it invaluable in my mind!
T.C. |
I agree with T.C. The link he listed contains the single most complete collection of, . . . . everything "Star Wars D6." |
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dadofett
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Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input. I had seen the master template list.
I don't know why I'm struggling with the templates so much...I guess they seem rather arbitrary to me. For example, take the Laconic Scout: I would expect anybody with the term "scout" to have Perception as one of his highest attributes...but it is his lowest! There are quite a few templates like this were the name has me expecting certain attribute/skill levels and they just aren't there.
Let me try this another way....
If my players were going to build characters from scratch using points (ie "creating a new template" pg 30 2nd ed. rev. exp. ), I would want to give them some direction as to which attributes make the most sense for a given archetype. Perhaps give the top 2 or 3 attributes they should put the most die codes in for a "class" of character. Call them "Attribute Templates".
Here's some examples I can think up:
Soldier: STR, DEX
Pilot: DEX, MEC
Jedi Consular: FOR, PER
Jedi Sentinel: FOR, DEX
Force Adept: KNO, FOR
Noble: PER, KNO
Scout: PER, DEX
Scoundrel: DEX, MEC, TEC
Slicer: TEC, KNO
etc, etc
Does this seem like a reasonable alternative approach to just telling the players to pick a template from the huge list?
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Guardian_A
Commodore
Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 1654
Location: South Dakota, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I like the idea of building my own character from scratch without any class restrictions. That way, you can create your own character any way you want.
If you have to have a class system, then something like what you are thinking of should work out fairly well. But I would give them the option of building their own character from scratch.
A list of 2 attributes that should be higher than the rest, along with a list of 2-4 skills that would be appropriate for each "class" would probably be the right way to go. This would give them a guideline for their character while still allowing them quite a bit of freedom when putting their character together.
For Example:
Soldier: DEX & STR: Blaster, Dodge, Brawl
Scout: DEX & PER: Hide, Search, Sneak
Pilot: DEX & MEC: Piloting (Starfighter or Transports), Starship Gunnery, Stamina
Slicer: KNO & TEC: Computer Program/Repair, Security, Sneak |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| dadofett wrote: | | I don't know why I'm struggling with the templates so much...I guess they seem rather arbitrary to me. For example, take the Laconic Scout: I would expect anybody with the term "scout" to have Perception as one of his highest attributes...but it is his lowest! |
The scout is relying on survival and knowledge more than perception and the low PER means his bargain, con, and persuade skills are low. That's why he's laconic.  But of course you are correct there is a certain arbitrariness to some of the template choices. However, it's pretty easy to move stats around on an existing template if you want a higher PER for the scout.
| Quote: | If my players were going to build characters from scratch using points (ie "creating a new template" pg 30 2nd ed. rev. exp. ), I would want to give them some direction as to which attributes make the most sense for a given archetype...
...Does this seem like a reasonable alternative approach to just telling the players to pick a template from the huge list? |
Sure that could work. It seems a bit odd to me, but then I've always found character class rules arbitrary and artificial. I find that for many players running a character from a template first is easiest. Rather than trying to describe Star Wars in character class terms, it may be easier to just get the players to decide what sort of character in the movies is closest to what they want to run - which for the original movies are contained in the templates in the main rule book. Later after they've played for a bit, they will be more familiar with the system and it is easier for them to create customized templates of their own. I also think that players coming from a D20 system background think about build tracks and may be worrying to much about min-maxing their characters. While you can min-max Star Wars it is less critical to do so with most of the templates. But I've been playing and GMing free form skill based rather than character class and level based systems for a long time. You should use what works for you and your players. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| dadofett wrote: |
Let me try this another way....
If my players were going to build characters from scratch using points (ie "creating a new template" pg 30 2nd ed. rev. exp. ), I would want to give them some direction as to which attributes make the most sense for a given archetype. Perhaps give the top 2 or 3 attributes they should put the most die codes in for a "class" of character. Call them "Attribute Templates".
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The 2 biggest issues i have seen come up with building your own are
A) How man skills to decide are core competence, vice what is desired. 3, 4, 9??
B) what equipment/cash starting out to give...
EG Do you have a trooper template start with ALL combat skills?? Or just a few? How do you pick which?
As for scouts.. Base 2nd ed book - Curious explorer, 4d per.
Cynical scout, 3d per 5d know (ithorian)
So there are more than just the base laconic scout.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dadofett wrote: | Thanks for the input. I had seen the master template list.
I don't know why I'm struggling with the templates so much...I guess they seem rather arbitrary to me. For example, take the Laconic Scout: I would expect anybody with the term "scout" to have Perception as one of his highest attributes...but it is his lowest! There are quite a few templates like this were the name has me expecting certain attribute/skill levels and they just aren't there.
Let me try this another way....
If my players were going to build characters from scratch using points (ie "creating a new template" pg 30 2nd ed. rev. exp. ), I would want to give them some direction as to which attributes make the most sense for a given archetype. Perhaps give the top 2 or 3 attributes they should put the most die codes in for a "class" of character. Call them "Attribute Templates".
Here's some examples I can think up:
Soldier: STR, DEX
Pilot: DEX, MEC
Jedi Consular: FOR, PER
Jedi Sentinel: FOR, DEX
Force Adept: KNO, FOR
Noble: PER, KNO
Scout: PER, DEX
Scoundrel: DEX, MEC, TEC
Slicer: TEC, KNO
etc, etc
Does this seem like a reasonable alternative approach to just telling the players to pick a template from the huge list?
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The beautiful thing about switching from a class and attribute based system to a skill based system is that eventually, the attributes don't matter any more. (Except for strength for soak rolls & perception for initiative) In D6 star wars, the attributes are only used for skills that the player has not put any of their skill dice, or have not advanced further with character points.
So, a scout could have 2D perception, but have a high sneak, search, and then a specialization in tracking. It doesn't really impact his ability to scout not being able to bargain or con.
For me as game master, I have had similar issues, and what I've found, is that using the templates as a guide, then modifying them and giving them a different name usually works best. Since the rules don't exactly state how much new templates get in starting credits. I pick a template based on type (noble, bounty hunter, techie, etc...), just shift around a few pips of attributes to suit me, keep the gear or exchange it for items of equal cost, and finally come up with a template name that suits me.
My prime example:
When playing in the New Republic Era as a Jedi at Luke's Praxium, there really isn't a template that fits a "Jedi Student." I look at the various templates in the main book (Alien Student of the Force, Failed Jedi, Minor Jedi, Young Jedi). I want to play a human, so that automatically scratches the Alien Student. The Minor Jedi starts the game with a lightsaber in his equipment, but no skill under dexterity to use the weapon. Well, that doesn't make sense. My character should be young, so I check out the Young Jedi: Great, super high perception, but the kid is of average human intelligence, plus he starts with a blaster pistol and a droid, and on top of that: no lightsaber skill. Finally we come to the Failed Jedi: Decent Knowledge, starts with the lightsaber skill & a lightsaber, I just wish his dexterity was a little higher. I drop the +1 from his perception to give him a 3D dexterity, and scrub out the darkside point. Get rid of the bottle of liquor and change the template to "Jedi Student." Or, just take the Minor jedi and add in the lightsaber skill and voila "Jedi Student."
And there you have it, based on the template, but not exactly the template. Find something that's close to what you're looking for, and flex your creativity to turn it exactly to what you want.
The templates are to be used as guidelines, just keep in mind, unlike in D20, if your character doesn't have 18+ or 4D in their main attribute or attributes, it's not the end of the world. 3D to 3D+2 is still really good, and shouldn't be scoffed at. Just be worried if the main attributes are sitting around at 1D or 2D, if they are, then you should probably switch attributes around or choose a different template. |
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dadofett
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ok guys, thanks for the feedback...I'm feeling a little better about it now.
I guess the class approach has been such a part of all my role playing in the past that I'm having a hard time letting go.
Guardian A, I like the idea of also listing appropriate skills along with expected attributes if I go the modified template approach.
Bren, I see your point about classes really being just as arbitrary as templates.
Garhkal, thanks for the names of the other scouts...which leads to Raven Redstar's point about combining/modifying templates as needed.
I really like the idea of identifying a few templates that capture the essence of what the player is aiming for and melding them into a new, more personal template.
Thanks all! |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I have been a 'class hound' since i do almost as much ADND gaming as i do Starwars, but i don't seem to have an issue going to templates.
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schnarre
Commander
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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...The beauty of Templates is that they can be modified according to the type of character you wish to play (an odd one I saw years back was a Young Senatorial that had a higher Strength than Perception--his was "2 Fisted Diplomacy"). Alternatively, you can draw up a new Template to the idea envisioned....& THAT'S part of the fun! 8)
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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And you can even take a template and make it NOT what it was ment to be.. EG taking a bounty hunter, and making him into a prize fighter. Or the smuggler template and making him into a con artist..
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