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Bren
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 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: Should CompNor have a Navy? |
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CompForce Navy
CompNor has its own army in CompForce. However, according to the Imperial Source book, CompForce does not have its own navy. I like CompForce as a villain or foil in the campaign. Their pro-New Order, pro-Human fanaticism provides an interesting contrast to the conservative professionalism of the Army and the Navy and the quiet cloned loyalty of the Stormtroopers. I see them as more fanatical than professional, like fascist brown or black shirts in the 1930s and 1940s or the Security Forces of Haven in the Honor Harrington stories. One thought I had recently was that a faction in CompNor and CompForce want to have their own naval forces (much like the security forces of Haven). So as an experiment, they are given a Star Destroyer and are assigned to a fleet operation. CompForce General Lav Berya is in charge of this force. The man chosen to oversee this experiment is General Berya. Note: in our campaign this action takes place about a month or two after the Battle of Yavin.
General Lav Berya
Is a high ranking member of CompForce and is politically well connected in CompNor. Berya is in overall command of the CompForce personnel in the fleet. Either Berya will be aboard the fleet flagship with the Fleet Admiral (to keep an eye on the Admiral) or alternately, on his CompForce Star Destroyer as his own mini flagship and personal experiment of CompNor crewed vessels. Berya is a Xenophobe. Slightly overweight and pompous, he hates, mistrusts, and fears non-humans and looks forward to the day when a final solution to the “alien problem” can be initiated. He fully accepts the New Order opinion that the Jedi were responsible for the Clone Wars and that the Wars were part of a Jedi plot to undermine the Chancellor and take over control of the Republic. Berya sees the Jedi Order as either having been dominated by aliens or as having been the tool of aliens in their scheme to control the Republic and to enslave humans. Berya is a fairly adept political schemer, an experienced bureaucrat, and a poor military leader and tactician. His personal goal is to help create a separate CompNor ground and space force to replace the existing Imperial Army and Navy. If a Star Destroyer is a CompNor crewed vessel, then this is an initial step in that plan and Berya has highly placed support in CompNor.
CompForce is often said to receive the best or new equipment ahead of the regular army. So one thought is to have the CompForce Star Destroyer have a full complement of TIE Interceptors (these will be a new ship in our house campaign and their first introduction to the players). The fleet flagship will also have a squadron of TIE Interceptors, but most likely the other TIEs in the fleet will be normal TIE/in.
- Option1: Berya is given an older Victory I vessel. The missile armament would make this older vessel ideal for planetary bombardment. I assume planetary bombardment is a favorite CompForce activity against strong alien worlds and I assume that CompNor and CompForce often are recommending or seconding any such Base Zero requests.
- Option 2: Berya is given an Imperial I vessel; in this latter case CompNor will have all TIE/in replaced with brand new TIE Interceptors. In our campaign, the players have almost exclusively faced the obsolete Victory Class Star Destroyers. So this would be a fairly new experience. I am planning for the Admiral’s fleet flagship to be an Imperial I class Star Destroyer.
In either case, since CompForce often gets the newest equipment, the CompForce Star Destroyer will be assigned more TIE Interceptors than are the Imperial Naval vessels in the fleet.
(1) Does this idea make sense, seem interesting?
(2) Do you see any potential pitfalls or problems?
(3) Which kind of Star Destroyer should CompForce be assigned?
(4) Other thoughts? |
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Give 'em interceptors, bombers, and the like, it is what the imperials do, right?
One question: do you treat Compnor as cannon fodder (as in poor stats-wise)? I only ask because if this is so then you really MUST give them cuting edge stuff.
I like the idea- so this would be a personal propaganda machine under indirect control of Palpy himself?
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Whill
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | One question: do you treat Compnor as cannon fodder (as in poor stats-wise)? I only ask because if this is so then you really MUST give them cuting edge stuff. |
Yes. Pretty much cannon fodder. Not as well trained as regular army/navy and certainly not as well trained as the elite stormtroopers. But because of the indoctrination and fanaticism, CompNor tends to be willing to take casualties that would break the morale of an army (or navy) unit. Stormtrooopers of course are willing to take heavy casualties if it is necessary to achieve the objective. Because the idea of intense inter service rivalry is part of my view of the Imperium the Army tends to use CompNor as cannon fodder or for distasteful tasks. So CompNor duties tend to be frontal charges, forlorn hopes, and last ditch defenses or genocidal / species-ocidal police actions and repressive support of police states. But I see the reason CompForce get the good toys as just being better political maneuvering on Coruscant by the loyalists of the New Order.
| Quote: | | I like the idea- so this would be a personal propaganda machine under indirect control of Palpy himself? |
Well not necessarily. I see Palpatine as liking the idea that no one except him has a monopoly on military force. He wants different services so that in the event of disloyalty or mutiny he can use one service against the other. Therefore he encourages multiple or overlapping authorities. In addition, I see the various services as trying to outdo, one up, or encroach on the territory of all the other services. So the Navy wants Naval troopers to defend space stations and Navy bases on planet and make them independent of the Army. The Army wants their own TIE fighters for ground support and trooper transports to make them (mostly) independent of the Navy. CompNor sees the Army and the Navy as not sufficiently loyal to the New Order and wants to replace them with CompForce and CompNav (which I just made up). Stormtroopers are clones bred to be loyal to the Emperor and he uses them as a check on the other services, but he wants enough other branches that he could thwart the stormtroopers if someone messed with some of the clones programming - say the clone masters try to program an order 67 - i.e. take out the Emperor and Vader and reinstate the Republic on command.  |
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Should CompNor have a Navy? |
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| Whill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | Should CompNor have a Navy? |
Compnor definitely exists in my SWU, but I haven't done much with them. But it's a big Galactic Empire, so why not? |
I like them as evil foils. One of the most annoying villains my Jedi character ran into was a fanatical SAGroup kid. Bren saved the kid's life and at the first opportunity the kid turned him in as a wanted fugitive. And he was just a kid, an evil kid, but still a kid, so I basically had to just lecture him and let him get away.  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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So how do you see COMPNav being organized, and with what type of equipment?
EDIT: By which I mean specific differences between COMPNav and the Imperial Navy.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:34 am Post subject: Re: Should CompNor have a Navy? |
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| Bren wrote: |
- Option 2: Berya is given an Imperial I vessel; in this latter case CompNor will have all TIE/in replaced with brand new TIE Interceptors. In our campaign, the players have almost exclusively faced the obsolete Victory Class Star Destroyers. So this would be a fairly new experience. I am planning for the Admiral’s fleet flagship to be an Imperial I class Star Destroyer.
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Assuming you're using the standard 60 turbolaser, 60 ion cannon armament for the ISD, what about replacing the ion cannons with a suite of assault concussion missile tubes? Good punch and survivability in space mixed with a viable base delta zero bombardment option.
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Wisconsin Wookie
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Joined: 25 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Assuming you're using the standard 60 turbolaser, 60 ion cannon armament for the ISD, what about replacing the ion cannons with a suite of assault concussion missile tubes? Good punch and survivability in space mixed with a viable base delta zero bombardment option. |
Ooo, I really like that idea. I may 'borrow' that one if you don't mind. Would that make them almost unstoppable? Any ideas on how to counter alll of those missiles? |
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | So how do you see COMPNav being organized, and with what type of equipment?
EDIT: By which I mean specific differences between CompNav* and the Imperial Navy. |
For now, I see CompNav as an idea of a certain faction of COMPNOR not a reality. So there is little or no real organization yet. Just a single assigned Star Destroyer and a number of special training classes sent through the Imperial Academies. The recruits are supplemented with a handful of veterans of the Imperial Navy who are COMPNOR members that have switched over to CompNav. Most CompNav officers are COMPNOR political hacks and fanatics who have gone through some special officer training program, but with no real naval combat experience (though some might have CompForce experience). The idea of the single CompNav Star Destroyer is to demonstrate that the CompNav force can be as effective in space as CompForce is on the ground.
I do envision them having their own personal uniform. It should be similar to a CompForce dress uniform with some space like insignia. Does anyone know what color CompForce uniforms, especially dress uniforms, are? I thought maybe they were white. I am liking the idea of something monochromatic. My preference is probably white, black, or crimson, but I'm curious if the EU has established an exisiting dress uniform color and style.
One difference would be that on Naval Star Destroyers I would see a typical complement being Navy personnel for crew with the troops being some Naval troopers for security on board ship and in dock as well as providing some ground capability, but always a major troop component of Stormtroopers. I envision the CompNav as having CompNav personnel for crew, CompForce personnel for security and ground operations. I envision the COMPNOR politicians behind the idea arguing that stormtroopers are not necessary among the politically pure and loyal COMPNOR crew. I also envision that idea losing out to the idea that stormtroopers must be retained as the recognizable and visible symbol of the Emperor and the Empire. I also assume that Emperor has absolutely no intention of allowing any single force, even COMPNOR, to have sole and complete control of a vessel as powerful as a Star Destroyer. I just don't see Palpatine as a trusting guy. 
I envision that CompNav like CompForce has standard Imperial military equipment, but because of their connections they tend to get upgrades at the same time as elite Navy units and sooner than the average Navy unit. Here I am thinking of German SS Panzer units which, if I recall correctly, received more of the newer Tiger tanks sooner than did Wermacht Panzer units. It's not that I see CompForce or CompNav getting prototype units, but more a political argument that the loyal, personal troops of the Emperor should have the best (existing) equipment. Therefore I probably won't give them a unique type of Star Destroyer (though I understand the appeal to others and think that may be a fine alternate view).
One exception is I imagine CompForce units to have some sort of detention and death units for implementation of genocide / species-ocide orders. A CompNav Star Destroyer would have disintegration booths or some such on board as well as ground units that could be dropped planetside. I see COMPNOR as filled with ruthless fanatics along with a number of cynical political hacks looking to expand their personal power.
* Thanks to crmcneill for correcting the spelling of COMPNOR (all caps). The COMPNOR organization chart from the Imperial Sourcebook spells COMPNOR as an acronym, but spells CompForce as a compound word. I have followed that spelling with CompNav. While I don't care about the actual spelling I am certain the COMPNOR members do care and vigorously debate such things. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Brown i think is their uniform color..
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | For now, I see CompNav as an idea of a certain faction of COMPNOR not a reality. |
That makes sense. I was thinking about your SS reference and it occurred to me that, while the SS was essentially separate from the Wehrmacht, it had no obvious counterparts among the Luftwaffe or the Kriegsmarine. When I read your original post, my first thought was how the KGB maintained a fleet of patrol boats (corvette sized or smaller) as part of its border patrol mission, but I don't know how that would fir with your idea.
| Quote: | | I do envision them having their own personal uniform. It should be similar to a CompForce dress uniform with some space like insignia. Does anyone know what color CompForce uniforms, especially dress uniforms, are? I thought maybe they were white. I am liking the idea of something monochromatic. My preference is probably white, black, or crimson, but I'm curious if the EU has established an exisiting dress uniform color and style. |
I think I recall mention of a villain in one of the adventure journal short stories where the villain was an ISB agent named Sollaine. He wore a light colored uniform, but I can't recall if it was white or a light grey. The only other image I can think of is in Rules Of Engagement, where they show a CompForce trooper wearing "power armor".
| Quote: | | I also assume that Emperor has absolutely no intention of allowing any single force, even COMPNOR, to have sole and complete control of a vessel as powerful as a Star Destroyer. I just don't see Palpatine as a trusting guy. |
An excellent point. I know the Wookieepedia article on CompForce makes some speculation as to how CompForce units fit into the Navy's command structure.
| Quote: | | I envision that CompNav like CompForce has standard Imperial military equipment, but because of their connections they tend to get upgrades at the same time as elite Navy units and sooner than the average Navy unit. Here I am thinking of German SS Panzer units which, if I recall correctly, received more of the newer Tiger tanks sooner than did Wermacht Panzer units. |
Something I remember from the Imperial Sourcebook is that CompForce units were generally better equipped than their Imperial Army counterparts, but this led to resentment on behalf of the regular army. As such, Imperial Army units tended to leave CompForce units hanging when it came to requests for support. IMO, this would sort of balance out; CompForce units have the best equipment available to the Army, and they get it first, but the trade-off is that they tend to get left hanging without adequate support from non-CompForce units in combat.
| Quote: | | * Thanks to crmcneill for correcting the spelling of COMPNOR (all caps). The COMPNOR organization chart from the Imperial Sourcebook spells COMPNOR as an acronym, but spells CompForce as a compound word. I have followed that spelling with CompNav. While I don't care about the actual spelling I am certain the COMPNOR members do care and vigorously debate such things. |
Doesn't the SpecForce slang glossary call them CompFarce?
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | That makes sense. I was thinking about your SS reference and it occurred to me that, while the SS was essentially separate from the Wehrmacht, it had no obvious counterparts among the Luftwaffe or the Kriegsmarine. When I read your original post, my first thought was how the KGB maintained a fleet of patrol boats (corvette sized or smaller) as part of its border patrol mission, but I don't know how that would fir with your idea. |
Yes. My view of COMPNOR, CompForce, and CompNav is influenced from the real world SA, SS, and NKVD.
My thought is that the earnest fanatics in the pro CompNav faction want a CompNor controlled Navy to quell any possible Imperial Navy mutinies that result in a group of ships going rogue. To combat that, they need something more than stormtroopers or CompForce - hence CompNav. Now the cynical political hacks in the faction just want to accumulate more power for themselves and want to try to take away power from the and one up the Imperial Navy much like has been done to a limited extent to the Imperial Army. My idea for a CompNav was partly inspired by David Weber's Honorverse where the Peoples Republic of Haven had a Security force with it's own separate navy to act as a check on the real navy. |
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Wisconsin Wookie wrote: |
Ooo, I really like that idea. I may 'borrow' that one if you don't mind. Would that make them almost unstoppable? Any ideas on how to counter alll of those missiles? |
Go ahead! If I didn't want my idea borrowed I wouldn't put it on the internet! Anything I write here is up for grabs.
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Anakin
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: |
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I use ComPNOr a bit like CIA;
They are a bit disliked by the military and the police. Whenever something interests ComPNOr, their agents show up and flash their IDs and take over; "Guys, go and have a coffee. This investigation is no longer your responsibility". In the same way they may show up in a docking bay; "Move aside. I need this ship. Why? Can't tell you, top secret. I don't know when I'm finished with it".
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Anakin wrote: | I use ComPNOr a bit like CIA;
They are a bit disliked by the military and the police. Whenever something interests ComPNOr, their agents show up and flash their IDs and take over; "Guys, go and have a coffee. This investigation is no longer your responsibility". In the same way they may show up in a docking bay; "Move aside. I need this ship. Why? Can't tell you, top secret. I don't know when I'm finished with it". |
Interesting. That is probably more polite than I see them. I see ISB as always suspecting everybody - except of course ISB.
Since Imperial Security Bureau is charged with maintainging morale and loyalty and a lot of COMPNOR is about promoting the New Order and Human High Culture I tend to see COMPNOR more like the Communist Party in Leninist/Stalinist USSR or the Nazi party and ISB as mostly like the NKVD, but with a hint of the Gestapo and CompForce as being like the SA or brownshirts - a mix of party loyalists, fanatics, and thugs. |
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