What is the relationship?

[Bren]

Garhkal's question about clones and their progenitors reminded me of something from our house campaign.

In our house campaign, my GM had a Dark Jedi, named Shadow, who cloned himself. My Jedi PC freed/rescued the clone. I'm not sure if the clone had the strength of the original. He definitely did not have the training and experience of the original and so was quite a bit weaker than his progenitor and was eventually killed by Shadow while protecting his pregnant lover from Shadow. She eventually gave birth to a force sensitive child. Where it gets a bit wierd is that Shadow is my PCs father.

So what is my PCs relationship with the son of the clone of Shadow?

[jmanski]

So how is Shadow's son related to Shadow's clone's son.... I guess that makes you brothers-in-clone? I dunno.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[Bren]

[Ankhanu]

You genetically share 1/4 to 1/2 of the same genes, you're half-brothers... genetically. You're cousins in more standard familial standing... it's the same as being the children of two couples where one parent in each couple is an identical twin.

Say Bill and Joe are identical twins. Bill has a son with Charlotte, named Frank. Joe has a son with Hilary, named James.
Genetically, Frank and James have the same father, but different mothers; they're genetic half-brothers. But because Bill and Joe are not the same person, they'd generally be seen as cousins (though they are genetically closer than cousins are).

The situation is the same whether the cloning process happens post- or pre- natal. The only difference is timing.
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.

Donate to Ankhanu Press

[Bren]

Half-brother cousins. I like that.

[CRMcNeill]

A soundtrack for this discussion
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Bren]

[Whill]

While it is true that clones are genetically equivalent to their genetic host in the same way that identical twins are genetically equivalent to each other, clones are not related to their genetic host in the same way that identical brothers are related to each other. Identical twins are not identical with their genetic progenitors (parents), only with each other.

We are all genetic offspring of others. Bren's PC is the natural sexual offspring of two genetic progentitors, one of whom is Shadow. Shadow's clone is also the genetic offspring of Shadow, like Boba Fett was the genetic offspring of Jango Fett. Only half of the PC's genetic coding comes from Shadow, while all of the clone's genetic coding comes from Shadow. Since half of the PC's genetic coding comes from the same progenitor as the clone, that technically makes Bren's PC a half-brother of the clone.

And that means Bren's PC is a half-uncle to the clone's child, from a relationship point of view, which was Bren's actual question.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage

[Bren]

[Whill]

[Ankhanu]

Unless I'm reading wrong, Whill is complicating the relationship. I read it as this:


Am I wrong?
Temporally, the clone would be younger than Shadow, but that makes it no less genetically him. In the genetic sense of things there's no uncle position present at all.
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.

Donate to Ankhanu Press

[Whill]

IMO, that seems to be bring in way more complication to this. You present two points of view, but neither is not the way I look at cloning from a relationship standpoint.

On the left that is the scenerio for any brothers. They are two seperate people with the same parents who marry different spouses and each have children who are cousins to each other. I don't consider clones to be brothers with their genetic progenitors.

On the right, you do show the genetic equivalency of clone and his genetic donor each having kids by a different wife which is also the genetic equivalency of identical twins having kids. Genetic equivalent relationships are the not the actual relationships.

Are the respective sons of identical twins actually considered to be half-brothers relationship-wise (even though they are the genetic equivalent of half-brothers)? I know some identical twins with kids who would take great offense to you calling their respective sons half-brothers with each other. Even though the twins are genetically identical, they are two seperate men with the same parents = brothers. Being the genetic equivalent of someone does not mean you are that person. The twins' sons are cousins because they have different fathers, which means your left chart applies more than your right one to them, relationship-wise.

So regardless of clone being genetically identical to his genetic donor in the same way that identical twins are genetically identical to each other, I don't view a clone to be a bother of the genetic donor. Identical twins actually start as one being that divides evenly into two identical beings. But that one being has the same two genetic progentitors (mom and dad) which makes them full brothers. The relationship between a genetic donor and his clone is not the same. Cloning does not divide one being into half to make two identical beings. It takes one person's genes and replicates them to create a new being. This does not describe brotherhood to me.

Relationship-wise, cloning is a lot more like procreating offspring. But instead of natural process with two parents, there is only one "parent", the original supplier of genes. I view a clone of a man to be his son, relationship-wise. Cloning creates someone as genetically equivalent as two twins are to each other, but you are not actually creating your own twin brother.

And this doesn't seem complicated to me at all:

...Shadow
... |......|
Bren . clone
.......... |
......... kid

Bren, this is an interesting thread. My idea and Ank's two ideas are all three true... from a certain point of view.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage

[Hellcat]

Jango Fett wanted one unaltered clone for himself. This clone became his son, Boba Fett. Technically, the entire clone army were descended from Jango Fett, so technically Boba Fett had thousands upon thousands of brothers. Any clone who had a kid then could claim their kid had thousands of uncles. So I'd say in your PC's case the son of the clone would either be your nephew or your half nephew.

Shadow is to be considered both the father of you and the clone. Now if your PC is a clone of Shadow in effect you and the other clone are full blood brothers descended from Shadow. This makes the clone's son your full blood nephew. However, if your PC had a mother then as the clone is only going to have just Shadow's DNA they only share half your DNA. So their your half brother. That makes their son related to you by blood, but their your half nephew.
_________________
FLUFFY for President!!!!

Wanted Poster

[Bren]