| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: Cryptography & Surveillance |
 |
|
I'm considering adding these two new Technical skills. I want to chop Crytography from Communications and make it a separate skill, but I'm not sure if it should be Technical or Knowledge (I don't know enough about codebreaking to know which is more valid). I also want to make a Surveillance skill to cover the technical side of Investigation (with a little Hide mixed in), installing hidden audio pick-ups and holo-cams, tracking devices, etc.
Thoughts and suggestions?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14171
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Being i work in the navy with codebreakers (CTAs) i can tell you it is a mix. Knowledge to know how the code is working, tech to use your gear to crack it.
BUT i disagree with your general premice that it should be a seperate skill of Comms. NOW I could see a scholar skill - cryptography for the basic patterns, history and general theory of cryptology (knowledge), whic might give your comms a benefit when trying to crack codes, but it would not allow it on its own.
Let me think on it and get back to you for surveilance.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Cryptography & Surveillance |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: | I'm considering adding these two new Technical skills. I want to chop Crytography from Communications and make it a separate skill, but I'm not sure if it should be Technical or Knowledge (I don't know enough about codebreaking to know which is more valid). I also want to make a Surveillance skill to cover the technical side of Investigation (with a little Hide mixed in), installing hidden audio pick-ups and holo-cams, tracking devices, etc.
Thoughts and suggestions? |
Why add a new skill?
It's not like I see a lot of PCs putting CPs to Communications. I think one PC out of 20 some odd has worked his communication skill up to 6D+. I'd leave cryptography with communications.
Surveillance as you described sounds like Security to me for the installation with Sensors used to operate the devices once they are installed. Hide would provide a bonus to Security for hiding the devices. No need for even more skills to my mind. If it is important to character concept I could see adding a specialization to Security - Security: Surveillance and Tracking devices. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was thinking making it a separate skill because the writing of codes also carries over into Computer Programming / Repair, and a character doesn't necessarily have to be able to drive a vehicle well to be able to code or decode. I have even considered making Communications a Technical skill, pulling it from Mech entirely.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Cryptography & Surveillance |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | Why add a new skill?
It's not like I see a lot of PCs putting CPs to Communications. I think one PC out of 20 some odd has worked his communication skill up to 6D+. I'd leave cryptography with communications. |
I'm on the fence with this one. I could theoretically see a need for a separate skill, but I wasn't sure, which is why I asked for opinions.
| Quote: | | Surveillance as you described sounds like Security to me for the installation with Sensors used to operate the devices once they are installed. Hide would provide a bonus to Security for hiding the devices. No need for even more skills to my mind. If it is important to character concept I could see adding a specialization to Security - Security: Surveillance and Tracking devices. |
I checked the description on Security before I wrote my original post, because I wanted to make sure it didn't cover it. It covers "locks, alarms and other detection devices, but not computer security procedures." Based on that definition, Security is limited purely to helping you break into physical locations that are equipped with measures to try and keep you out, and doesn't cover using concealed electronics to spy on people.
The thing is, a lot of the facets of a potential Surveillance skill are also covered by Investigation and Hide, so I'm sort of on the fence with this one, too. I guess its kinda one of those things where you have to actually tell someone about it to get an idea of how flimsy it really is.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Cryptography & Surveillance |
|
|
| crmcneill wrote: |
I checked the description on Security before I wrote my original post, because I wanted to make sure it didn't cover it. It covers "locks, alarms and other detection devices, but not computer security procedures." Based on that definition, Security is limited purely to helping you break into physical locations that are equipped with measures to try and keep you out, and doesn't cover using concealed electronics to spy on people. |
I take "detection devices" to include not just weapons scanners but also electronic surveillance, holocams, bugs, etc. IIR the security station on the Death Star has panels with video monitors that are under observation by the security forces. We see Han, Luke, and Chewie blasting them when they break Leia out of the detention block. But I can see why you might have read it differently.
| Quote: | | The thing is, a lot of the facets of a potential Surveillance skill are also covered by Investigation and Hide, so I'm sort of on the fence with this one, too. I guess its kinda one of those things where you have to actually tell someone about it to get an idea of how flimsy it really is. |
I think of Investigation more along the lines of detective skills, deduction a la Sherlock Holmes or Hercule Poirot, creating intelligence out of data like a military or CIA analyst. I see that as a mental activity different from the technical activity of knowing where and how to place devices for optimum coverage or the physical act of actually placing them.
And as I have seen here in the UK, security monitoring devices are often intentionally not hidden, (and they were pretty obvious on the Death Star) so using hide as a separate skill works for me.
As to how this works in play, we had two players running Intelligence/Security kinds of characters. One was a player who took over the character Voren Na'al. Initially Na'al was an Alliance observer on our locally based Rebel group. Later he bacame an Intelligence officer. Na'al has a very good Investigation skill. He relies on his knowledge skills, his Investigation, and his Search to observe and analyze. His security and sensor skills are pretty mediocre.
The other was a slicer. She had very good technical skills (Comp Prog/Rep and Droid Programming) and a good Con. She acquired information by slicing computers or droids and by verbal trickery. She was only OK at Investigation.
So she acquires the data. He analyzes data that someone else has acquired. Obviously other types of intelligence characters could be developed. But this worked for us.
Typically, unless you have a lot of players wanting similar characters there seems little point in SW to too many skills. It's supposed to be sweeping space opera with the PCs as the key nexus of activity. That is hard to do if there are lots of skills since the PCs will never get enough CPs to advance all the skills they need to be reasonably central to the plot.
Now if I want to run a gritty infantry combat campaign, I may want to add more skills appropriate or interesting for a combat infantry soldier (different types of ground tactics, vehicles, missile weapons, grenades, blasters, sniper weapons etc.) and be more general for things like piloting ships or styles of lightsaber combat for example. While if I am running all Jedi, more differentiation on lightsaber techniques and Jedi lore makes sense, but I might be a bit more generalized on ground pounder skills or droid programming and droid repair.
As I see it, the rules should fit the tone and style of the campaign being run. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14171
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I could see investigation not just that 'sherlock' holmsy deductive reasoning, but also knowing about each and every type of security device and their uses.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | I could see investigation not just that 'sherlock' holmsy deductive reasoning, but also knowing about each and every type of security device and their uses. |
And Hide so that you know how to place them so they won't be spotted.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | I could see investigation not just that 'sherlock' holmsy deductive reasoning, but also knowing about each and every type of security device and their uses. |
While I would see security as knowing about security devices and their uses. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | While I would see security as knowing about security devices and their uses. |
Again, the description of Security is quite specific in that it is a skill designed for penetrating facilities that are designed to keep you out. It makes only the most basic of mentions of cameras or other surveillance systems. On top of that, the technology involved, while it does have some similarities, is also very different. Security cameras in the like are generally hardwired into a network, and are usually unconcealed except as a concealed backup layer to trip up people who only try to counter the more obvious system. Surveillance equipment, on the other hand, is designed to be portable, and in the case of bugs and other listening devices, operate entirely by remote and be relatively innocuous and easily concealed. IMO, the two types of technology may share similar roots, but their dissimilarities far outnumber their similarities.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rerun941
Commander
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 459
Location: San Antonio, TX
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think this is the point where specializations come in:
Computer Prog/Repair: Electronic Motion Sensor
Computer Prog/Repair: Surveillance Camera
Security: Key Lock
Security: Padlock
Security: Safecracking
Security: Electronic Lock
Communications: Code Breaking
Communications: Encryption
The differences between Security and Computer Prog/Repair are mostly in the realm of: Is is computer controlled or does it have dedicated electronics for control?
_________________
Han - "How're we doin'?"
Luke - "Same as always."
Han - "That bad, huh?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14171
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would see encryption and code breaking being 1 and the same...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | I would see encryption and code breaking being 1 and the same... |
While technically encryption and decryption are different, but related skills I see no reason to divide them in Star Wars.
I see Security as an important skill for spies and counter-intelligence agents as well as for thieves and loss prevention specialists and in keeping with a general preference to keep skills relatively few in number and fairly general I would tend to lump all the detection device related skills that occur outside a computer under security. Thus while I'd prefer to include Electronic Motion Sensors and Surveillance Cameras and other detection devices under security, I could probably live with Rerun's identification of the overall skill that would cover the activity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | I see Security as an important skill for spies and counter-intelligence agents as well as for thieves and loss prevention specialists and in keeping with a general preference to keep skills relatively few in number and fairly general I would tend to lump all the detection device related skills that occur outside a computer under security. Thus while I'd prefer to include Electronic Motion Sensors and Surveillance Cameras and other detection devices under security, I could probably live with Rerun's identification of the overall skill that would cover the activity. |
Personally (even though I'm the one who proposed the idea of a Surveillance skill), I will probably make the dividing line between Security and Investigation in the nature of the equipment itself. If it is permanently installed in a specific facility, designed for protecting that particular facility and no other, then it is Security. If it is portable, easily concealable and designed for quick installation in a wide variety of situations and locations (like, say, comlink bugs, micro-cameras, tripod-mounted recording macrobinoculars, etc), then it falls under Investigation or Sensors, and installing bugs so that they can't be found would be Hide.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14171
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dat gets my thumbs up..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
