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Lostboy
Commander
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:11 am Post subject: MAPs and forcepowers |
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When using force powers are Multiple action penalties applied per prerequisite power or per force skill used or does each power count as only one action regardless and therefore have only a 1D penalty?
e.g. Lightsaber combat uses both control and alter. 1 MAP or 2? |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Per force skille used to activate. You can however spread them out over several rounds to avoid MAPs.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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EG.
I wish to activate the force power Detect life. it is a control power only, so is 1 action.
I dodge that round as well, so i have 2 actions total, each getting -1d map
Later on i wish to activate Force barrier a control and alter power.
As this uses 2 force skills, it is 2 actions. If that is all i do in the round, each is rolled at -1d. BUT if i spread it over 2 rounds and do NOT do anything else, each is rolled without the penalty.
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Praxian
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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There was a rules update for the 2nd ed revised that came out at one point.
If you were to activate "Lightsaber Combat" in one round, it would simply be a use of the power with no MAP's. If you were to use say 2 different Force Powers, THEN it would be a MAP.
The reasoning behind it being that using Force Powers is like using skills. So when you use one skill, there's no MAP, but when you use 2, there is.
I'll see if I can find where it came out at, but I do believe it was an official book. |
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Rimmer
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Joined: 14 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Using Lightsaber combat as an example, it uses two skills to activate, hence two actions as far as MAP's are concerned, unless the two skills were used in different rounds, control in round one, and sense in round two, but once it was activated (and kept "UP") it only counted as one action thereonafter. |
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Lostboy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Cool, thanks for the clarification guys. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Praxian wrote: | There was a rules update for the 2nd ed revised that came out at one point.
If you were to activate "Lightsaber Combat" in one round, it would simply be a use of the power with no MAP's. If you were to use say 2 different Force Powers, THEN it would be a MAP.
The reasoning behind it being that using Force Powers is like using skills. So when you use one skill, there's no MAP, but when you use 2, there is.
I'll see if I can find where it came out at, but I do believe it was an official book. |
I have never seen any official rules that obliviates LS combat from the 2 skill = map rule.
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Praxian
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Praxian wrote: | There was a rules update for the 2nd ed revised that came out at one point.
If you were to activate "Lightsaber Combat" in one round, it would simply be a use of the power with no MAP's. If you were to use say 2 different Force Powers, THEN it would be a MAP.
The reasoning behind it being that using Force Powers is like using skills. So when you use one skill, there's no MAP, but when you use 2, there is.
I'll see if I can find where it came out at, but I do believe it was an official book. |
I have never seen any official rules that obliviates LS combat from the 2 skill = map rule. |
I'll see if I can find the book it's in. I know I read it - just not sure what book it is in. It basically states that because as a Jedi, you've made these powers into instinctive skills, using one that has two "attributes" (aka Control and Sense) is not using MAP because you're only using one skill (aka LS Combat). However using 2 Force Skills (say Sense Force and LS Combat in the same round) is a seperate issue altogether.
Also, LS Combat is automatically kept "up" until the Jedi is stunned, wounded, or worse. So in the round after the Jedi raises LS Combat, there is no more MAP because LS Combat doesn't require concentration to keep up unlike some other Force powers.
"This power is called upon at the start of battle and remains "up" until the Jedi is stunned, wounded, or worse"
R&E Core book - page 148
I'll look in my GM books I have (I believe it's in there) for the R&E stuff. |
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Lostboy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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That doesn't sound right to me Praxian.
One of the only things that make the Jedi manageable are MAPs. The method you have listed | Quote: | I'll see if I can find the book it's in. I know I read it - just not sure what book it is in. It basically states that because as a Jedi, you've made these powers into instinctive skills, using one that has two "attributes" (aka Control and Sense) is not using MAP because you're only using one skill (aka LS Combat). However using 2 Force Skills (say Sense Force and LS Combat in the same round) is a seperate issue altogether.
Also, LS Combat is automatically kept "up" until the Jedi is stunned, wounded, or worse. So in the round after the Jedi raises LS Combat, there is no more MAP because LS Combat doesn't require concentration to keep up unlike some other Force powers. |
makes them even stronger, in my opinion jedi have enough going for them without letting the have MAP exemptions on top of there powers. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, not official, but I tend to limit the MAP counts of Jedis if for no other reason than for ease of play. On the other hand my jedis only get to add half the Sense to Lightsaber skill and only half Control in damage.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Lostboy wrote: | That doesn't sound right to me Praxian.
One of the only things that make the Jedi manageable are MAPs. The method you have listed . |
Precicely. Overloading a jedi with MAPs is a time honored tradition of whittling them down.
| Quote: | "This power is called upon at the start of battle and remains "up" until the Jedi is stunned, wounded, or worse"
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And what that is meaning, is the jedi can maintain a power up, without having to worry about rerolling it each round. They still suffer multiple actions for keeping it up.
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Black 5
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:36 am Post subject: |
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I always thought it was silly that a wounded Jedi that kept the feel no pain power up to not feel the impact of a injury still had a -1D for keeping the power up instead of the 1d for being injured. 
(As a GM I would let it slide that the character used the force power, and then would not get the -1d)
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Black 5 wrote: | I always thought it was silly that a wounded Jedi that kept the feel no pain power up to not feel the impact of a injury still had a -1D for keeping the power up instead of the 1d for being injured.
(As a GM I would let it slide that the character used the force power, and then would not get the -1d) |
I tend to let MAPs slide in similar situations, like Concentration or Enhance Attribute. After all, what is the use of the character getting a 1D bonus to their attribute which immediately evaporates just because they were using the Force while they did it? My rule of thumb: If the Jedi uses Enhance Attribute to enhance a single skill, he gets no MAP. Same deal with similar skills like Combat Sense and Concentration. MAPs get applied as normal for a character using multiple non-Force skills with Enhance Attribute up, or for the higher end Force powers that require multiple Force skill rolls to activate.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Black 5 wrote: | I always thought it was silly that a wounded Jedi that kept the feel no pain power up to not feel the impact of a injury still had a -1D for keeping the power up instead of the 1d for being injured.
(As a GM I would let it slide that the character used the force power, and then would not get the -1d) |
CP is the only force power i do that with.. Because of that incompatibility.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Praxian wrote: | Code: | There was a rules update for the 2nd ed revised that came out at one point.
If you were to activate "Lightsaber Combat" in one round, it would simply be a use of the power with no MAP's. If you were to use say 2 different Force Powers, THEN it would be a MAP. |
I don't believe I have seen that update. I'd be interested if you could find it.
ZzaphodD wrote:
| Quote: | | Ok, not official, but I tend to limit the MAP counts of Jedis if for no other reason than for ease of play. On the other hand my jedis only get to add half the Sense to Lightsaber skill and only half Control in damage. |
We do something similar, using the average of Control and Sense as a dice pool that can be added either to Lightsaber skill or to damage. So if the Jedi has Control 5D and Sense 5D+2, he has a dice pool of 5D+1 (average of 5D and 5D+2) that can be allocated between his skill and his damage. This gives the Jedi some flexibility in having a high attack or parry, but at a lower damage or having a high damage at a lower attack & parry.
One other thing we do is assume that to parry heavier damage weapons e.g. laser cannon, the Jedi must add enough to damage to roughly equal the weapon damage else the lightsaber just can't parry the big weapon. Net effect then is it is harder for the Jedi to parry big weapons since he needs to allocate dice from the pool to the damage rather than just the chance to parry.
crmcneill wrote:
| Quote: | | I tend to let MAPs slide in similar situations, like Concentration or Enhance Attribute. |
Concentration adds +4D, so with a MAP penalty it gives a net bonus of +3D. And based on the example in the RAW the designers specifically count the MAP penalty for use of a Force Power against the bonus.
And I agree with all that Control Pain may need some tweaking. Though one advantage to Control Pain with MAPs could be if you succeed in the Control Pain roll (with the MAPs included) then the other powers that you have up, e.g. Lightsaber Combat, don't drop. |
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