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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: Starship Factory Upgrades |
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On all starship stats, you are given a list of stock stats, and that's all you get. When purchasing a vehicle in real life, however, there are always dozens, if not hundreds, of upgrades that you can purchase to improve your vehicle's performance. I was looking at full-size pick-up trucks the other day, and there were six different options for engines alone. Why shouldn't it be the same in the SWU?
I'm thinking it should be possible to purchase improved engines, maneuverability, sensors, weapons and such direct from the factory for your character's starship. The great thing about this would be that, although such upgrades might cost more up front, they wouldn't have the attendant reduced reliability and modification mishaps.
What I'd like to hear from the rest of you is new ideas for factory upgrades and options for starships |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Diff there is our factories make only a couple of hundred thousand of cars, so it is easy to make a set of upgrades for each.. Where as a ship maker makes MILLIONS upon MILLIONS. for an entire galaxy...
Plus you ever seen the cost for engines (tramp freighters) alone? The cost update might be more than double the ships cost as is.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Diff there is our factories make only a couple of hundred thousand of cars, so it is easy to make a set of upgrades for each.. Where as a ship maker makes MILLIONS upon MILLIONS. for an entire galaxy...
Plus you ever seen the cost for engines (tramp freighters) alone? The cost update might be more than double the ships cost as is. |
All the more reason to offer the upgrades. Every salesman will tell you that the place they make the most money is on the up-sell, on the upgrade package, and all the little extras that they throw in. Plus, economics are the same on a galactic scale as they are on a planetary scale: supply and demand. Everyone knows that nobody ever just sticks with a "stock light freighter". Owners always modify things to suit their own personal tastes and, in this case, the specific mission that they plan to put the ship to. Even massive corporations that produce and sell millions of units on a galactic scale still target specific markets and will do things to make their products that much more attractive to the customer.
Sure, you can go to your local fringe mechanic and have him install all the upgrades aftermarket, but then you're facing all the attendant mishaps and annoying quirks that come with an upgrade that the ship may not necessarily have been designed for. On the other hand, if you had the money, and you could get the same upgrades from the factory, complete with a warranty covering the upgrades, they would tend to be much more reliable because the ship was engineered to take the upgrade and interface it with the vessel's controls and operating systems, rather than something jerry-rigged in a shed somewhere.
As a real-life example, a family member of mine owns a very nice 350Z roadster that they have put a lot of money into. They bought it used for $29K, and it blue-booked at around $35K. Then the fun started. They got a wild hair and decided to start putting aftermarket parts on the car. Turbocharger, exhaust, intake, full suspension, racing clutch, limited slip differential, racing tires and wheels, stereo, neon lights, navigation system, brakes, body kit, etc, etc. $60,000 later, they now own a VERY high performance ride, with performance numbers matching a stock Porsche 997 Turbo, at roughly $20,000 less.
The biggest problem all along has been maintenance. The stock V6 on a 350Z is not built to take the increase in horsepower generated by the turbo, and there have been multiple engine problems as a result. There is also a laundry list of minor glitches and faults with this car that are not found in the Porsche. The reason why is that the Porsche was designed from the ground up to perform exactly the way it performs, and be a reliable vehicle in the process. The 350Z was designed to perform at a much lower level, and any upgrade attempts must be done very carefully to avoid screwing something up or facing long-term mechanical issues.
Why wouldn't it be the same in the SWU? Sure, there are plenty of people who might want to cut corners and save a buck by buying their own bare-bones ship and cutting corners on aftermarket upgrades, but there will also be plenty who want to go the legitimate route and have a vehicle that is better than "stock" without the attendant reliability issues.
Now obviously not every upgrade is going to be available. In the real world, you can't get modified suspension from a dealership, and engine upgrades like turbos are almost impossible to get from a legal standpoint because you can't pass smog inspections (California thing) with a turbo charged vehicle that is supposed to be normally aspirated. Liability and government regulations always tend to put a cap on such things That doesn't mean that upgrades like a 1 or 2 point bump in engine speed, an extra D of shields or maneuverability, sensors packages, cargo support systems or other options wouldn't be available from the factory at the right price. |
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Bulldogzeta
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Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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Location: Fox Valley, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Why wouldn't it be the same in the SWU? Sure, there are plenty of people who might want to cut corners and save a buck by buying their own bare-bones ship and cutting corners on aftermarket upgrades, but there will also be plenty who want to go the legitimate route and have a vehicle that is better than "stock" without the attendant reliability issues.
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Actually, the Millennium Falcon is a good example of a ship being upgrade past what its systems can handle in the long term. The problem with the hyperdrive in ESB is a sign of what can happen to a ship that has been heavily modified. There's also higher mishap chances built into the rules. I don't recall if it's in the main rules or in the Tramp Freighters guide, but I think that it's a fairly accurate representation of what can happen.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Starship Factory Upgrades |
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| crmcneill wrote: | On all starship stats, you are given a list of stock stats, and that's all you get. When purchasing a vehicle in real life, however, there are always dozens, if not hundreds, of upgrades that you can purchase to improve your vehicle's performance. I was looking at full-size pick-up trucks the other day, and there were six different options for engines alone. Why shouldn't it be the same in the SWU?
I'm thinking it should be possible to purchase improved engines, maneuverability, sensors, weapons and such direct from the factory for your character's starship. The great thing about this would be that, although such upgrades might cost more up front, they wouldn't have the attendant reduced reliability and modification mishaps.
What I'd like to hear from the rest of you is new ideas for factory upgrades and options for starships |
I assume the listed stats for each ship represent the 'stock model' ie, the most common model. If my players want to buy a YT1300 with factory installed engines with Space 5 and more powerful shields they will eventually find one. Sure its not as common but there are still millons or at least hundreds of thousands out there. For military ships the reason for different stats/configurations should represent different roles for the craft. Such allready exists in many cases.
I just modify the existing stats within reasonable limits. Higher/lower Space rating for example. I have no hard rules, but do this on the fly.
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jmanski
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the differences in autos are comfort items: stereo, seats, tinted windows, etc.
To get more engine power you basically buy a better model.
For any car you buy there will be a base model for each engine type and a better model for each engine type with cooler stuff (stereo, seats, etc).
I looked at the Mustang: you choose coupe or convertible, then you choose v6, v6 premium, GT, GT premium, or Shelby GT500 (wich is double the cost of the base v6 model). There are no options other than model types to change engines (you basically have 3 choices: v6, 5.0, or 5.4). Anything else would have to be added aftermarket. When we bought our car they offered to add anything we want, but it was implied that it would cost (and I'm certain that means dealer cost of aftermarked parts plus labor- which isn't cheap).
So you could have different models of ships, say a base model, a better model, and a high performance model.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Starship Factory Upgrades |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | I assume the listed stats for each ship represent the 'stock model' ie, the most common model. If my players want to buy a YT1300 with factory installed engines with Space 5 and more powerful shields they will eventually find one. Sure its not as common but there are still millons or at least hundreds of thousands out there. For military ships the reason for different stats/configurations should represent different roles for the craft. Such allready exists in many cases.
I just modify the existing stats within reasonable limits. Higher/lower Space rating for example. I have no hard rules, but do this on the fly. |
My hard drive crashed a while back, and I lost a large amount of archived Star Wars D6 homebrew ideas that I had saved up over the years. One of the things that I lost was a list of factory upgrades for YT1300 freighters. Basically, it allowed you to purchase a variety of modest add-ons that made the ship "better than stock". It included options for up +2D in armor, shields and maneuverability, up to +2 in Space, an upgraded hyperdrive, increased consumables storage, enhanced sensor package, increased computer capacity allowing for reduced crew, a second laser cannon, external cargo attachments, etc.
It even allowed you to select the cockpit layout of the YT-1300 from the factory, specifically that you could select the cockpit location (left, right, or center-line). It even gave you the option of including two cockpits, but converting one of them to an extra cargo bay or a parking garage for a small speeder.
Each modification included a price listing and how much cargo space (if any) would be lost or gained. The prices weren't cheap, and some were only available at the time of purchase, and couldn't be modified in later, but the prices were competitive with similar aftermarket upgrades without the attendant mishap issues.
My goal is to recreate this list for a broader spectrum of use, where it can be applied to any "stock light freighter" to one degree or another. What I'm really asking for is ideas for upgrades that I haven't thought of. |
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jmanski
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Weapons, better navicomputer, docking claw, airlocks, plasma torch boarding device, commo gear, cargo hold specific (IE temperature, gravity, atmosphere conditions in hold)
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | Weapons, better navicomputer, docking claw, airlocks, plasma torch boarding device, commo gear, cargo hold specific (IE temperature, gravity, atmosphere conditions in hold) |
On a side note, how would it be possible to have a better navicomputer. For most freighters, you already have one with unlimited jump capability. Would it be possible to buy one that reduces your astrogation difficulty level by -5 or -10? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Plus how were you getting 2d more in hull? Mods can only go 1d+2 above base.
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Lancil
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Plus how were you getting 2d more in hull? Mods can only go 1d+2 above base. |
That's right about mod's. But remember this is from the factory, and this rule only apples to after market mod's not from the factory upgrades. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | Weapons, better navicomputer, docking claw, airlocks, plasma torch boarding device, commo gear, cargo hold specific (IE temperature, gravity, atmosphere conditions in hold) |
On a side note, how would it be possible to have a better navicomputer. For most freighters, you already have one with unlimited jump capability. Would it be possible to buy one that reduces your astrogation difficulty level by -5 or -10? |
The standard procedure when it comes to computers seems to add to the skill, but it amounts to the same thing. A +1D Astrogation computer seems like a good thing to have...
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | Weapons, better navicomputer, docking claw, airlocks, plasma torch boarding device, commo gear, cargo hold specific (IE temperature, gravity, atmosphere conditions in hold) |
On a side note, how would it be possible to have a better navicomputer. For most freighters, you already have one with unlimited jump capability. Would it be possible to buy one that reduces your astrogation difficulty level by -5 or -10? |
The standard procedure when it comes to computers seems to add to the skill, but it amounts to the same thing. A +1D Astrogation computer seems like a good thing to have... |
That's what I was thinking. And I'm not comfortable with +2d hull increase, either... 6d hull off the show room floor? That may be ok for some but to me that's overpowered.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | That's what I was thinking. And I'm not comfortable with +2d hull increase, either... 6d hull off the show room floor? That may be ok for some but to me that's overpowered. |
Depends how you justify it. What if you are purchasing a freighter to use for commercial supply runs in hazardous environments, like asteroid belts or to planets in close orbit around a star, then the extra +2D is actually necessary. Hull code is for use against damage of all types, not just weapons.
Plus, the increase in hull code could take a variety of forms, be it integral backup systems that kick in if something is damaged, increased internal hull bracing, structural integrity / magnetic shielding, or just basic thicker hull plates. The increase in hull code represents the sum total of the vessel's durability in hazardous situation,s not just its ability to resist blaster fire. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | | That's what I was thinking. And I'm not comfortable with +2d hull increase, either... 6d hull off the show room floor? That may be ok for some but to me that's overpowered. |
Depends how you justify it. What if you are purchasing a freighter to use for commercial supply runs in hazardous environments, like asteroid belts or to planets in close orbit around a star, then the extra +2D is actually necessary. Hull code is for use against damage of all types, not just weapons.
Plus, the increase in hull code could take a variety of forms, be it integral backup systems that kick in if something is damaged, increased internal hull bracing, structural integrity / magnetic shielding, or just basic thicker hull plates. The increase in hull code represents the sum total of the vessel's durability in hazardous situation,s not just its ability to resist blaster fire. |
Well, it its accompanied by a -2D maneuverability due to all that extra durasteel.... A +2D Hull upgrade with no or little maneuverability penalties should represent military grade armour (and even out of the ordinary for being military). I have different Hull metals in my ship upgrade rules.
Cheapest: Recycled Durasteel, basically armour plates stripped from other ships welded to the hull. Also heaviest.
Most Expensive: Chromium (iirc), also lightest.
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