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How to knock down shields?
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:58 am    Post subject: How to knock down shields? Reply with quote

As there are some ships with shield ratings bordering on the silly side (4-5D), are there any good ways to knock the shields out except damaging the ship (ie defeating shields+hull)? It seems from some of the movies that shields tends to get overloaded when taking fire, but not neccessarily being destroyed. I dont know of any such rule, but thought I ask as perhaps I missed it.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just use Ion cannons, since they ignore shields.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Why not just use Ion cannons, since they ignore shields.


You could use missiles too, as they too ignore shields (particle shields are supposed to be included in the hull rating).

The point is if there is such a rule anywhere. I have a vague recollection of reading of such a rule.
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Gamer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For WEG I don't recall any all shield encompassing rule, there are ship specific rules due to their unique shields.
In SAGA there is the shield hit in the starship maneuver secttion of Starships of the galaxy.


For weapons there is also the Ion torpedo found in secrets of the Sisar run that are on the star wing assault gunboats.
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vong
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: How to knock down shields? Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
As there are some ships with shield ratings bordering on the silly side (4-5D), are there any good ways to knock the shields out except damaging the ship (ie defeating shields+hull)? It seems from some of the movies that shields tends to get overloaded when taking fire, but not neccessarily being destroyed. I dont know of any such rule, but thought I ask as perhaps I missed it.


I would potentially allow the users a called shot to the shield generator. -4D on the PCs rolls, but id give them +4D to damage (you can mod htis number as you see fit). The damage result is then applied to the shield generator (eg destroyed means sheilds down, then some form of weakening on other results - like an arc of shields is down, -2D to shields etc).
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZzaphodD wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Why not just use Ion cannons, since they ignore shields.


You could use missiles too, as they too ignore shields (particle shields are supposed to be included in the hull rating).

The point is if there is such a rule anywhere. I have a vague recollection of reading of such a rule.


Missiles still roll damage against hull+shields..
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Missiles still roll damage against hull+shields..


Nope. Standard shields are "ray shields". Ships also have "particle" shields, but they are already factored into ships' hull codes.

BTW, one way to reduce the shields is get a damage result that equal or exceeds the Hull roll slighly (0-3 range). Each shuch hit lowers the shields by 1D.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Missiles still roll damage against hull+shields..


Nope. Standard shields are "ray shields". Ships also have "particle" shields, but they are already factored into ships' hull codes.

BTW, one way to reduce the shields is get a damage result that equal or exceeds the Hull roll slighly (0-3 range). Each shuch hit lowers the shields by 1D.


And if theres no shields left, then ionized until shields are repaired (ie weidly copying the 'lightly damaged result) .

What in one increases the span of 'shields blown/ionized' to perhaps 3 below. Or perhaps go the whole 1st ed yard and apply the result if the damage roll is more than half the resistance roll. However, the difference is that 'blown' shields dont need repair. The need to be either rebooted or have power rerouted. This is done with the 'Shields' skill, which in the RAW works in a silly manner IMO.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that was the big advantage to Mon Calamari cruisers, the can replace depleted shields immediately with an easy shields roll. Regular craft need to make a cap ship repair roll that takes time to get the system back up and running at full power.

Or something like that. I dont have a copy of the rules infront of me.

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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I thought that was the big advantage to Mon Calamari cruisers, the can replace depleted shields immediately with an easy shields roll. Regular craft need to make a cap ship repair roll that takes time to get the system back up and running at full power.

Or something like that. I dont have a copy of the rules infront of me.

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Yeah, the weird Mon Calamari shields..I wonder how they managed to keep those from the hands of the Empire.. Rolling Eyes

The MonCal backup are more or less instant and very easy to bring online. When you bring normal shields that have been reduced back online it will be more and increasingly difficult and also take a longer time. This can of course be done by the MonCal too, once their 'instant' back up shields are used up.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back when the Mon Cal ships' stats were created it was canon that the Mon Cal species and planet had been discovered by the Empire. They hadn't been part of the old Republic. They had advanced shield technology from their own development before first contact or somesuch. Or they only used it deep underwater or something and the Empire never got their hands on it when they enslaved the Mon Cals.

I don't know, continuity back then was simultaneously better and worse then it is today.

I can't back that up, it was just as bad there was just less of it I guess.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
Back when the Mon Cal ships' stats were created it was canon that the Mon Cal species and planet had been discovered by the Empire. They hadn't been part of the old Republic. They had advanced shield technology from their own development before first contact or somesuch. Or they only used it deep underwater or something and the Empire never got their hands on it when they enslaved the Mon Cals.

I don't know, continuity back then was simultaneously better and worse then it is today.

I can't back that up, it was just as bad there was just less of it I guess.


I dont disagree with you. It wouldn be the first or the last time something didnt really make sense....one have to take these things with a grain of salt so to speak. Nowadays (ie after 'Stock Ships' in the 90s) there are MonCal light freighters with the same type of shields, so it becomes more and more unbelievable its still a secret technology.. Lets just assume that for some reason the Empire havent put the technology in use..

Anyway, this rule does not replace the MonCal shields. It will be more difficult(and increasingly so), probably take longer, and will risk the shields (all) going offline (1 on wild die) from power surges when rerouting power.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the reason the Mon Cals have kept it from the empire (and others) is that like much of the 'Ancient' technology from the race we know as the alterans/Ancients (STARGATE) required a specific marker in that race to use.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that the empire didn't employ the technology on their ships is because it's too costly.
Or, perhaps because Imperial ships for the most part were built by Sienar Fleet Systems or Kuat Drive Yards, and neither corporation had any access to the technology. I suppose they were limited to whatever technology their corporate defense contractors had access to.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Star Wars EU continuity from the WEG years, it was definitely much better than it is today. The EU was much smaller and had much less material to coordinate. And the fact that part of the WEG Mon Cal backstory was revised by the prequels should not reflect on the continuity of the WEG era. It's simply a retcon. I'm happy the Quarren and the Mon Calamari appeared in the prequels because they are both such cool species, and revising their background is no biggie.


As far as the Mon Cal shield tech, remember the Empire occupied their planet and the race was enslaved for years. The Empire would have had access to this and many of their technologies. We shouldn't assume the Empire should have it just because they had access to it.

So the question of why the Empire didn't use the Mon Cal shield technology could have many explanations. Maybe it was cheaper and more efficient for the Empire to use traditional shields. Maybe it was just a philosophical difference in Empire not putting as much emphasis on defense like the more peaceful mon Cals. Maybe the technology depended on the organic Mon Cal design to work properly and it failed when trying to adapt it to existing Imperial technology...
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