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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: Dealing with large dice pools |
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I'm using the 2ndR&E scale rules except I would like to change the dice to modifiers. It would simplify and speed up the game if I could just have my players roll the unmodified ship rolls and then add a numeric modifier. For example, when a starfighter and capital ship are engaged I would like to add the average result from the 6D scale difference instead of rolling the actual dice.
There is a chart in the back of the D6 Space book but the numbers looked a little off. Math is not my strong suite so correct me if I'm wrong but which formula would be more accurate?
method 1
(3.5 * 6)=21
method 2
((36-6) / 2) = 15
Method 2 makes more sense to me since you can't roll below 6 with 6D, however 3.5 is the true average of a single d6. Opinions? |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| 21 is correct. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Since the scaling modifiers are always in pairs of dice (2D, 4D, 6D, 12D) you can just replace each 2D with a flat +7 (or +7/+14/+21/+42).
One potential pitfall is that the flat modfier tends to make things tougher for the disadvantaged ship. For example, a Starfighter is going to find it even more difficult to damage a Star Destroyer with a flat modifier of +21 rather than 6D, since the ISD can't get a Hull roll below 20 anymore. Not that this is a bad thing, but it is worth being aware of. "lucky" hits will be somewhat rarer.
I've been thinking of replacing the scaling rules with mutipliers like those used in some D6 systems. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Agreed. One of the times i have witnessed a TIE fighter damaging a corellian gunship (the party stole some ties) was cause of open ending 4 times on the wild and the CG getting really low rolls... Had i averaged it out like above, that great hit would have not done anything.
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | Since the scaling modifiers are always in pairs of dice (2D, 4D, 6D, 12D) you can just replace each 2D with a flat +7 (or +7/+14/+21/+42).
One potential pitfall is that the flat modfier tends to make things tougher for the disadvantaged ship. For example, a Starfighter is going to find it even more difficult to damage a Star Destroyer with a flat modifier of +21 rather than 6D, since the ISD can't get a Hull roll below 20 anymore. Not that this is a bad thing, but it is worth being aware of. "lucky" hits will be somewhat rarer.
I've been thinking of replacing the scaling rules with mutipliers like those used in some D6 systems. |
I am not that familiar with the D6 Space scaling rules. Would they seem to be better than what I'm trying to do with the static modifiers?
| garhkal wrote: | | Agreed. One of the times i have witnessed a TIE fighter damaging a corellian gunship (the party stole some ties) was cause of open ending 4 times on the wild and the CG getting really low rolls... Had i averaged it out like above, that great hit would have not done anything. |
In this case it might be helpful for my characters. They are in a Corvette going up against fighters usually. Using these modifiers might help prevent a really lucky TIE pilot from ending the campaign prematurely.  |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see a problem with the +7/+14/+21/+42 on average. However, I would cut the bonus if a smaller ship is targeting a specific system. Because a fighter can still knock out a capital ship's engines, or maybe take out the sensor tower on a capital ship.
That's why larger ships often employ squadrons of fighters to defend those key points. However, for a fighter to be able to completely destroy a capital ship, it would be very difficult, and probably require torpedoes or missiles or something of that nature to be able to overcome the +21 modifier. Plus most players hate it when a GM is rolling a bucket of dice. I've had many times when I do so, and my players all look to the floor... |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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BTW, the large number of dice is why I switched to a modified version of the 1st ed rules (and 2nd if im not mistaken). I simply use D4:s (reroll 5-6), D3:s and D2:s instead. I roll the same number of dice, but change the dice. However, I do not use the 'cap' rule. A rolled 5 on a D3 is a 3.
This tends to enhance the scaling rules which is fine by me (too many unter-weak speeders and speeder scale weapons). |
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Grimace
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Joined: 11 Oct 2004
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Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | However, I do not use the 'cap' rule. A rolled 5 on a D3 is a 3.
This tends to enhance the scaling rules which is fine by me (too many unter-weak speeders and speeder scale weapons). |
Do you realize that only the Rule Expansion in Star Wars had the "drop dice that rolled over the cap"? As of 2nd edition, if the die rolled over the cap, the die just counted as the cap #. So if the cap was 4 and the die came up 5, it only counted as 4. |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Grimace wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | However, I do not use the 'cap' rule. A rolled 5 on a D3 is a 3.
This tends to enhance the scaling rules which is fine by me (too many unter-weak speeders and speeder scale weapons). |
Do you realize that only the Rule Expansion in Star Wars had the "drop dice that rolled over the cap"? As of 2nd edition, if the die rolled over the cap, the die just counted as the cap #. So if the cap was 4 and the die came up 5, it only counted as 4. |
Yes, but I like to keep the outcome spread eveny between the different numbers, so I changed it into different sized dice instead. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | | Space scaling rules. Would they seem to be better than what I'm trying to do with the static modifiers? |
Not really, it is essentially the same thing. In the nwer D6 books, they tend to give two or three differnt options for rules to try and cover the verarious ways they have done things in the past. One such rule tweak is that many of the modfiers are listed as dice and as a flat bonus. So the +7/14, etc. is probably the easiest way to go.
As for the multipliers, they actually hailed from the DC RPG (a legend system variant). In that game, to handle Superhuman stats, they introducted multipliers So someone might have 4D STR with a x3 mutlipler instead of 12D.What I've been thinking of is doing something along those lines. Rather than a ship getting extra dice for scaling, it could get a multiplier.
The drawback is that the current stats might not fit well with a multiplier system. Some stats would probably need to be shifted around a little.
| garhkal wrote: | | Agreed. One of the times i have witnessed a TIE fighter damaging a corellian gunship (the party stole some ties) was cause of open ending 4 times on the wild and the CG getting really low rolls... Had i averaged it out like above, that great hit would have not done anything. |
In this case it might be helpful for my characters. They are in a Corvette going up against fighters usually. Using these modifiers might help prevent a really lucky TIE pilot from ending the campaign prematurely. [/quote]
It will reduce the chances but not entirely eliminate it. I've seen some very high damage rolls thanks to the wild die, and even seen a blaster pistol do over 80 points of damage. Using fixed values just makes it less likely for someone to get a double whammy (lots of sixes on the wild die vs. lots of 1s on the other side).
The good news is that it will certianly "work", and won't require any major changes |
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Phalanks Balas
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Paris - France
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Dealing with large dice pools |
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| MA-3PO wrote: |
method 1
(3.5 * 6)=21
method 2
((36-6) / 2) = 15
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tsss...
Dear MA-3PO if you want to calculate the average with method 2 you made a mistake...
((36+6)/2) = 21
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Phalanks
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Last edited by Phalanks Balas on Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Madwand
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Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
| garhkal wrote: | | Agreed. One of the times i have witnessed a TIE fighter damaging a corellian gunship (the party stole some ties) was cause of open ending 4 times on the wild and the CG getting really low rolls... Had i averaged it out like above, that great hit would have not done anything. |
In this case it might be helpful for my characters. They are in a Corvette going up against fighters usually. Using these modifiers might help prevent a really lucky TIE pilot from ending the campaign prematurely.
It will reduce the chances but not entirely eliminate it. I've seen some very high damage rolls thanks to the wild die, and even seen a blaster pistol do over 80 points of damage. Using fixed values just makes it less likely for someone to get a double whammy (lots of sixes on the wild die vs. lots of 1s on the other side).
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Am I missing something here? I thought you weren't supposed to use the wild die on damage rolls, for exactly reasons like this. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Nope. You use the Wild dice on EVERYROLL barring 2. The 1D6 you roll for the turning to the darkside avoidance, then also the 2d6 you roll for avoiding dying when at mortally wounded.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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No Madwand is right. I checked the 2R&E rulebook and it specifices that the wild die is used for all attribute ands skill rolls. It does not say for all damage rolls! 
THis means that the wild die doesn7t apply to damage, but does apply to the STR roll to resist it!
What is kind of odd is that if someone spends a CP to increase damage, they do get to reroll sixes!
BTW, does anybody else find it strange that a character can spend CPs to increase the damage from a weapon against a vehicle (or ship) but can not spend CP to increase the vehciles Body/HUll STR to soak the damage? |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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This is off the 2nd ed R&E Screen..
CRAP adobe reader is not allowing me to cut n paste from it.
"
What it says is
"Wild die counts for All rolls including Damage and Perception for initiave.
Its on the same page (5) that has the Starwars rule of thumb, scaling and Vehicle damage info.
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