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MrNexx
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 Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:57 pm Post subject: Bonuses based on positioning |
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If two Jedi are fighting, mostly melee with lightsabers, what would be the advantage of one having the high ground?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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At most, i'd say a +2 to their rolls...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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The old Jedi Handbook (available on the Downloads page if you don’t already have it), dealt a little bit with this in the Dueling Chapter, but it mostly amounted to 1D bonuses and +5 modifiers, so not a huge variable.
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sithholocron
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Bonuses based on positioning |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | If two Jedi are fighting, mostly melee with lightsabers, what would be the advantage of one having the high ground? |
having their legs at the end of combat
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Naaman
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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But, in all seriousness, it seems that the advantages would mostly be based on leverage.
Whatever the bonus, I'd apply it both offensively and defensively.
You can be certain that the bigger you make the bonus, the harder PCs will try to maneuver for position, even at the expense of being able to attack for a round or two (which could make combat much more interesting).
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:03 am Post subject: |
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It's over Ani, I have the high ground.
Any higround aka automatic victory |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I think the whole “high ground” line was silly and unnecessary. The scene would’ve worked just as well with Obi-wan’s “don’t try it”, and Anakin responding with “you underestimate my power.” The subtext would’ve been that Obi-wan saw what Anakin was about to do, knew it would likely fail, reaches out one last time to his dear friend, knowing what he would have to do.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Bonuses based on positioning |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | If two Jedi are fighting, mostly melee with lightsabers, what would be the advantage of one having the high ground? |
Since I'm partial to the Dueling Blades rule system, I would suggest Positioning being inserted as an optional result for winning the opposed roll, maybe as part of a larger "scene change" mechanic, where lightsaber fights tend to move from one location to the other.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bonuses based on positioning |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | ...unnecessary. The subtext would’ve been that Obi-wan saw what Anakin was about to do, knew it would likely fail, reaches out one last time to his dear friend, knowing what he would have to do. |
That's exactly what was happening. Obi-Wan's positioning on the higher ground, and his "high ground" statement were meant to convey the literary quality of the symbolism that Obi-Wan had the moral high ground. If there had been a narrator, Lucas probably would have had the narrator state it instead of a character. The statement is somewhat ironic because the Jedi Order failed Anakin, which Obi-Wan does personally takes responsibility for and admits to Anakin. As a Jedi survivor Obi-Wan becomes a tragic, dishonest character, and the statement emphasizes that too, but despite it all Obi-Wan still relatively maintained the higher moral ground to Anakin.
Lucas has stated that despite it causing Star Wars to venture into PG-13 territory, he always thought it was very important to show the full extent of Anakin's suffering as part of his fall. An idea Lucas became enamored with for the PT is that Anakin's fear of losing Padme became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course Padme had to die but first had to live long enough to give birth to the twins. The actual cause of Padme's death is muddled in the film by Lucas trying to square-peg another literary cliche in; the 'losing the will to live' nonsense was Lucas trying to say that Padme 'died of a broken heart'. Palpatine somehow knows of her death but doesn't know about the twins, which implies that he was ultimately behind her death (perhaps setting up something in advance within her body), but it was important to Lucas to show that Anakin believe he had caused her death (and obvious that Palpatine wanted him to believe that).
But despite all of Palpatine's machinations and the failings of Jedi Order being huge factors in it, Lucas still wanted it boldly demonstrated that Anakin willingly chose the Dark Side for selfish reasons. I don't think it was was completely successful from a dramatic perspective, but the film's intention was to start out portraying Anakin as a flawed but sympathetic character, to end with making the audience feel he totally deserved everything that happened to him at the end. A fall. By the end, Anakin had the low moral ground, relative to Obi-Wan. So yes, Lucas could have left out Obi-Wan's statement and just let the visual symbolism of Obi-Wan standing on the higher ground do it, but it seems Lucas wanted to make the symbolism more obvious.
Incidentally, the novelization of the film (where we have the power of narration), is very different. Back then, novelizations were still based on screenplays that do not reflect the final edits of the films, and this book was released almost 7 weeks before the film. In the book the two exchanged different pre-amputations last words. Obi-Wan says, "Good-bye, old friend". Anakin says, "This will be the end for you, Master. I wish it were otherwise." Obi-Wan replies, "Yes, Anakin, so do I." Anakin's attack misses and Obi-Wan ends up on "the rim of a low cliff". Then without any further words Anakin immediately leaps towards him, but he is just a bit too slow. It describes Obi-Wan attempting to parry where he thinks Anakin's blade will be and instead accidentally cuts off his legs, and then when trying to recover from that Obi-Wan accidentally cuts off his arm. From everything we know about Lucas' thoughts on the film and scene, it seems that because the film isn't clear about what exactly is happening in the 'amputations move', Lucas went with further emphasizing the literary qualities of the scene and film, including that point that everything that happens to Anakin is still mostly his own fault. Drama over continuity.
I find that I like the dialogue in the film better than in the book (and the film also has Williams scoring to help with the drama). I personally don't find it significantly more silly than a lot of other dialogue in all the films.
| Quote: | | If two Jedi are fighting, mostly melee with lightsabers, what would be the advantage of one having the high ground? |
[plays broken record]Not everything in the films necessarily needs translated to game terms.[/stops broken record]...
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Since I'm partial to the Dueling Blades rule system, I would suggest Positioning being inserted as an optional result for winning the opposed roll, maybe as part of a larger "scene change" mechanic, where lightsaber fights tend to move from one location to the other. |
That's cool. I't's been a long time. I'll have to take another look at Dueling Blades sometimes.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Bonuses based on positioning |
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| Whill wrote: |
That's exactly what was happening. Obi-Wan's positioning on the higher ground, and his "high ground" statement were meant to convey the literary quality of the symbolism that Obi-Wan had the moral high ground. If there had been a narrator, Lucas probably would have had the narrator state it instead of a character. The statement is somewhat ironic because the Jedi Order failed Anakin, which Obi-Wan does personally takes responsibility for and admits to Anakin. As a Jedi survivor Obi-Wan becomes a tragic, dishonest character, and the statement emphasizes that too, but despite it all Obi-Wan still relatively maintained the higher moral ground to Anakin.. |
That was one of the few things i felt, the prequels got right.. The imagry of the scenes, along with the music.
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