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I have a few questions
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Samp
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:55 am    Post subject: I have a few questions Reply with quote

A few quick questions for some people more experienced them me.

First is about Jedi. 2 in my group are force sensitive and at least one is interested in increasing his power with the force. I only have the Core rulebook to work with, and it is very cryptic on how I should go about having them learn. I had the idea to have a adventure where they discover a man who works at a Freeport who owns a Holocron, and is willing to trade it to them if they deal with some nasty pirates who have been bothering his customers.

My next question is a little harder. One of my players is comparable to La Forge from star trek. Anytime machines are involved he comes up with some off the wall plan. He always seems to try to find loopholes in things that I missed, kinda taking advantage of the fact that I am new at not only roleplaying, but also GMing.

He also seems to almost be offended if I say no, or say its not possible. Any ideas to help me with this person. I do not want to limit them too much, but I also cant let them do anything they want. One thing he said he wanted to do one day was microjump past a shield just when a capital ship fired its gun. Personally I just dont think something like that is possible even with a huge roll.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: I have a few questions Reply with quote

Samp wrote:
A few quick questions for some people more experienced them me.

First is about Jedi. 2 in my group are force sensitive and at least one is interested in increasing his power with the force. I only have the Core rulebook to work with, and it is very cryptic on how I should go about having them learn. I had the idea to have a adventure where they discover a man who works at a Freeport who owns a Holocron, and is willing to trade it to them if they deal with some nasty pirates who have been bothering his customers.


That's a tough one. Holocrons are pretty rare in most eras of play... something like that could be the reward for an entire campaign.
"Realistically" opening the world of the Force to characters mid-game can be very difficult, and adding in random masters or holocrons can come back to bite you later, so should be treated with caution.
You could let them learn about the Force through self-discovery; learning without a teacher costs double CP... so learning the first 1D in a Skill would be inflated to... (is it 20 normally?) 40CP. This works better after getting that first die; but hey, someone way back in the distant past was the one to figure it out themselves Razz
If you do bring in a master or holocron, don't be afraid to take it away from them at some critical moment... can make for some great game play.

Samp wrote:
My next question is a little harder. One of my players is comparable to La Forge from star trek. Anytime machines are involved he comes up with some off the wall plan. He always seems to try to find loopholes in things that I missed, kinda taking advantage of the fact that I am new at not only roleplaying, but also GMing.

He also seems to almost be offended if I say no, or say its not possible. Any ideas to help me with this person. I do not want to limit them too much, but I also cant let them do anything they want.


Ah, yes... players like this are known as asshats. Razz There's not a lot you can do but point out the fact that rules are guidelines, and that the GM has COMPLETE control over where and how the rules are enforced, and the GM's word is final. People who can't accept this sort of thing generally are a detriment to the game flow and fun... which is the point of playing... as such, sometimes the only recourse is to remove them from the group if they cannot be reformed.

Samp wrote:
One thing he said he wanted to do one day was microjump past a shield just when a capital ship fired its gun. Personally I just dont think something like that is possible even with a huge roll.


Not possible in Star Wars. Hyperspace isn't like Star Trek Warp. To calculate a jump like that would be Heroic+++ difficulty, and take probably several hours to calculate (and must be calculated with the exact entry and exit points, else the calculation will be off)... if he thinks he can stop time right before that blaster bolt hits to start working on the astrogation, then, yeah, it could work... but if he has no time dilation special abilities, he's SOL.
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Expendable Hero
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First about the Jedi. Unless you decide to have them start with a teacher I prefer to make them adventure around a while before they find one. I mean if the Empire can't find them its a good bet the players will have trouble. Sure they could be keeping an eye out for potential students but unless the PCs do something that draws attention to there abilities there isn't really a reason for the Jedi to even take notice. Also if you let Jedi gain power to fast they quickly unbalance the game and that can take away the fun. You want to make sure they gain there powers at a rate that any non Jedi can keep up with.

My second part is about your La Forge. The first step to keeping him from going out of line is his skill level. He may be good but most new characters can only work small miracles. Another important thing to remember is time. Sure he can reroute the cables to electrocute the stormtroopers but can he do it in less than a minute. If it does get to the point where he needs to be stopped I would just talk to him before a game in private and explain that its not fair to the other players if he plays a munchkin and takes all of the action. Most of my players step out of the spotlight a little more often if I just talk to them about it. Also it is important to remember that upgrades to weapons and ships get expensive very quickly if you don't make tons of cash. So this is a good way to limit power levels. And remember somethings can't be solved by a wrench. Make sure you give them a broad area of skill uses and it makes it harder to max out one skill to god like levels without sacrificing overall ability. Many new GMs don't use the full compliment of skills a PC can choose from which makes many characters pointless.
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Samp
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a good point about the time factor. I always forget about that. Thats something I will need to keep in mind, that helps a lot. Very Happy

Also thanks for the rest of your suggestions, they help a lot.
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vong
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the jedi

I had one like that in my campaign. I was going to introduce her to a dark jedi, and have him teach her evil ways, forcing her to atone from an early stage in her training, or turn to the dark side Wink
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Eiren
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the Jedi:

A suggestion may be a compromise between making the player go it 100% alone or giving them a holocron/master... Maybe they could discover some ancient texts about the force and the jedi, just enough to get the character interested and maybe enough to make getting those first 1D force skills easier, but not enough knowledge to help beyond that.

I've been known to do similar things in my games, just give enough to get a jedi on the right path, but not enough to guide them for the entire path they wind up taking.

About the player:

I agree with having a private talk with him. One thing alot of 'players' don't seem to get is that a roleplaying game is not the same as a board game, there is not a "you win" ending really and that sometimes things aren't always gonna go their way. One example I use often with my players is that a roleplaying game like Star Wars is supposed to be cinematic sci-fi fantasy... That being said, how fun would the movies have been to watch if everything always went the "pc's" ways?
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Expendable Hero
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the stats for you characters. Perhaps we can help give you an idea of what types of things they should be capable of doing. Also if you can remember any of the tricks that the La Forge has pulled add those so we can get a feel for the things he does.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi student- Getting a holocron should be the point of a huge section of a campaign, not an adventure, IMHO. Now, what I've done is have players go on a hunt for Jedi artifacts. I think it took them the better part of a year to get something that was as effective as a holocron.

In short, they were retracing the steps of a long-dead Jedi that was trying to rediscover the art of crafting holocrons. All they could find for the longest times were his early drafts that didn't work nearly as well, and were limited teaching tools. The more they were able to follow the leads, the more advanced the teaching tools became.

La Forge - I don't know at this one. With so little context as to what you're planning and what he's doing, this might be even a 50/50 issue. I've personally frustrated a new GM, just because I had a technically minded character wanting to do some very creative things. Other times I've snuck into fortresses that she had meant us to fight our way into. One time we were meant to infiltrate a militia force, and my character got the idea to enlist, rather than go the cloak and dagger route.

If he's trying to do unreasonable things with technology, then you need to encourage him to tone it down. If he's trying to do reasonable things with the technology, then he might help you adapt. Just because a GM didn't think about it, doesn't mean that it can't be done. Also, just because something is logically possible (regardless of how implausible) for a character to do, it doesn't mean it is in genre.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
If he's trying to do unreasonable things with technology, then you need to encourage him to tone it down. If he's trying to do reasonable things with the technology, then he might help you adapt. Just because a GM didn't think about it, doesn't mean that it can't be done. Also, just because something is logically possible (regardless of how implausible) for a character to do, it doesn't mean it is in genre.


Couldn't have said it better. Having a player that thinks outside the box and comes up with creative solutions to the challenges presented by the GM can be a great asset to a game. The one thing you have to make absolutely clear and everyone on the table have to abide to is that it's YOUR game, YOUR rules. You can have a brief discussion on whether this or that scheme is feasible or not, but once you make your ruling, it's final. The player has to swallow it with a smile and move on with the game, otherwise it'll stop being fun.

The burden is on you to be a fair GM. Don't disallow things just because they break away from your planned game-path. If the player comes up with a clever scheme, roll with it and use to better the adventure. Players will always respond better to situations they have brought about themselves. Things can be a little tricky if you have less "Star Wars knowledge" than your player. In that case you'll have to listen to his arguments on why it would work and make an educated ruling. This might mean that sometimes you will allow something that should be impossible, or the other way around, but either way, once you've decided, the player must accept it an move on with no hurt feelings.

And as for the example you brought up, it IS impossible to perform a micro-jump into a ship's shield. For one, the space between shield and shield is too small, and it's impossible to calculate such a precise jump. Gand Admiral Thrawn made similar jumps, but nowhere so accurate, and it only worked because the target ship was an Interdictor. And still, a ship doesn't lower it's particle shields when it fires its guns, only when it fires missiles.
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Xynar
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Jedi, I have an idea. I had a potential Jedi player character find some old texts with diagrams and pictures. The kicker is that these texts were just like a childrens first spelling workbook. It only taught basics and everything was put forth quite simply so the player had to think like a child to be able to complete the basic tasks.

As for the player, if he's an experienced player, he should know better than to force you about and not work with you. Shame on him. As a noob GM, your players should be willing to work with you as you should be willing to work with them.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: I have a few questions Reply with quote

Samp wrote:
A few quick questions for some people more experienced them me.

First is about Jedi. 2 in my group are force sensitive and at least one is interested in increasing his power with the force. I only have the Core rulebook to work with, and it is very cryptic on how I should go about having them learn. I had the idea to have a adventure where they discover a man who works at a Freeport who owns a Holocron, and is willing to trade it to them if they deal with some nasty pirates who have been bothering his customers.


Best way, is to have them through the game get wind of a possible jedi, or jedi master who has hid out.. So they have to adventure to find the person then prove their worth to be trained.. I find this is a lot better than just handing out holocrons.. Also since they are jedi artifacts, how would a freeport worker own one??


Samp wrote:

My next question is a little harder. One of my players is comparable to La Forge from star trek. Anytime machines are involved he comes up with some off the wall plan. He always seems to try to find loopholes in things that I missed, kinda taking advantage of the fact that I am new at not only roleplaying, but also GMing.

He also seems to almost be offended if I say no, or say its not possible. Any ideas to help me with this person. I do not want to limit them too much, but I also cant let them do anything they want. One thing he said he wanted to do one day was microjump past a shield just when a capital ship fired its gun. Personally I just dont think something like that is possible even with a huge roll.


This one is a little harder... Easiest way to start reigning him in some, is to have him roll his Knowledge score (or scholar, or repair skill) to see if he could have even come up with said plan, THEN if he succeeds he can try to impliment it.

Others are to have the items he needs start getting pricier or scarcer..

Quote:
Not possible in Star Wars. Hyperspace isn't like Star Trek Warp. To calculate a jump like that would be Heroic+++ difficulty, and take probably several hours to calculate (and must be calculated with the exact entry and exit points, else the calculation will be off)... if he thinks he can stop time right before that blaster bolt hits to start working on the astrogation, then, yeah, it could work... but if he has no time dilation special abilities, he's SOL.


ALso depending on the size difference between his ship and the one he is trying to jump into the shields of, his ships hyper drive might not let it happen due to the mass shadow of the ship. I know in the Xwing games if there is a ship bigger than a dreadnought in my path (even if it is under or over me) it stops me going into hyper space..

Quote:
Thats a good point about the time factor.


Just remember the rule of 2...
First repair roll - 2 rounds
second roll on same tasking, 2 minutes
third - 2 hours
4th - 2 days and so on..
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ifurin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: I have a few questions Reply with quote

Samp wrote:
.......(cut).....
First is about Jedi.

a holocron may be too powerfull for a reward for that mission but i could see possibly a jedi text. if you have access to the jedi's net book look at the text section. it would give the character some insights into jedi training without being too powerful. then the character can look for a hidden jedi to help them train. i did this in one of my games with a player who wanted to be a jedi but his character really didn't know much, he knew of the jedi stories that circulated and he knew that he could sense things that others couldn't. in an adventure the character found the text that basically just told him of the jedi code, the training techniques, and a sense power. it was not much (more of a diary than a complete jedi text) but it allowed him to search for more. we called the book "how to be a jedi.... for dummies."

Samp wrote:
.....(cut)..... to La Forge from star trek. .....(cut).....
He also seems to almost be offended if I say no, or say its not possible. Any ideas to help me with this person. ......(cut)..... was microjump past a shield just when a capital ship fired its gun.

for the microjump i have to agree with gry. whili possible not feasable even with an astromech droid, a character, and a nav computer ti would take forever to figure out. for the star trek like maneuvers ... well starwars tech is not that sophisticated. re-routing things and diverting things causes problems. (if you want i could post the jury-rig mishap table later) if the player can logically explain how he is doing something then let him, but warn him that the ship is not supposed to run like that and it might cause problems later. another thing to consider is that modifying things takes spare parts and credits. i usually let my players have enough parts laying around to fix or modify one system. from there they need to let me know how much they are spending on parts to be used for emergencies.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way you could micro jump close to an object like a ship is if you took out the safety's that the ship has installed. I've only had one character do it and thats only because the GM decided that are nobody smugglers where suddenly attacked by Darth Vader and his own personal Star Destroyer. Even then the goal wasn't to get close and stop it was to do as much damage as possible and start fresh in a game we weren't screwed from the get go. Most ships if you try and jump close to an object get forced out of hyperspace. Sometimes violently.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Holocron

I added one early to the campaign I am running, and ended up adding an hour to a session while the PC's figured out they couldn't open it yet. So, be advised, adding layers of complexity to a campaign can slow down an unprepaired GM. Tease them with the knowledge maybe... a little taste at a time... Pages of a Tome gathered one by one instead of a Holocron maybe?

Microjumping:

I agree with it not Happening without a huge resource, Timothy Zahn had Thrawn's fleet Micro jump train for months before using that tactic against the New republic, and even when it was done by trained imperial pros in top of the line Star Destroyers, it was a big risk.

Your Asshat:

GM = God. Simple. Talk with them outside of the game and ask them to assist rather then hinder, I'm sure a good friend will understand. If Not, give him what he wants and have it backfire drastically on occasion. The other PC's will stop looking to that person for ideas, and work on something themselves.
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Samp
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I just remembered was that he also asked if he could turn the power packs for blasters into grenades. At the time I said no because it did not seem feasible. Usually I have the enemy armor damaged beyond repair after they kill something (so far mostly storm troopers and droids), but they get a lot of weapons and blaster packs.

On one hand it would be nice for them to use the imperial ammo for something useful. Right now I segregate Rebel and Empire ammo (but any ammo pack can be used for any gun). So a heavy blaster ammo from the empire could be used for any empire blaster weapon, same with rebels. I did this for simplicity mostly.

So my question is would it be possible to turn a power pack into a grenade, and if so how hard should the blaster repair (maybe?) roll be, and how much damage should it do. Also it should probably have a penalty when thrown in my opinion.
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