Using the Force for non-lightsaber weapons

[krysallokard]

I was just wondering if there has been any thought to a Force user using a weapon other then a lightsaber? Perhaps a sword master or other such melee weapon. Could it be possible to have the character use the Force to augment their ability to use that weapon, say, with proper preparation and focus?

Any thoughts on this?

[masque]

Jedi Master Vodo-Siosk Baas is seen to use a walking stick in combat against Exar Kun in the Tales of the Jedi comic books. Kun was using lightsabers during both instances, the first with two lightsabers, the second with his newly created double-bladed saber.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

[cunning_kindred]

As Lightsaber combat is already unbalanced it seems likely that any equivalent power for blaster, melee weapons or simiar could only be more unbalanced. I did try to address this problem in my own game. In the thread about making Lightsaber an advanced skill I talked about making a power that augments all manner of advanced martial arts. This worked ok in my game but it was still very powerful. If you are not careful you risk creating an ability that inflicts even more damage with a successful strike than a lightsaber - something thats not only unbalanced but feels completely wrong in a Star Wars game.

I did also create a dark side power that augmented weapons fights with sith blades. This used sense and alter and required inflict pain and injure/kill to learn. You added sense to hit rolls and alter to damage but only a sith sword worked because the power also inflicted alter damage to the weapon being used (sith blades are invulnerable). it seemed balanced but probably only because it was rarely used (activating the power gave the user a dark side point).

Most of the time this is best handled with combat sense I think.

[CmdrDarmic]

We addressed the issue of mounting damage by changing the rules. The Control skill no longer adds to damage (which always seemed a little odd to me) but to the Dodge skill (and dodge works against a lot more than just blasters). I mean, Control is supposed to affect the Jedi's body, so Alter would be more appropriate for a damage increase, while Control increases the Jedi's ability to dodge. It worked much better and seemed a bit more cinematic and "movie-like". It required a lot more for a blaster thug to put down a Jedi, which is as it should be. IMHO

[jmanski]

We changed the damage bonus as well. We ruled that a Padawan gets +1d damage, a Knight +2d, and Master +3d. It's not as powerful, but powerful enough.

I like the idea of Control being added to dodge- I might have to play with that a little....
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[krysallokard]

I really like the idea of adding Control to defense and Alter to damage. I'm going to have to consider this.

[CmdrDarmic]

We also allowed the Jedi/Force-Users to learn skills covering unarmed combat and melee weapons, though the melee weapons were one difficulty level higher to use than a lightsaber or unarmed combat. Also, a Jedi/Force-User could activate both Lightsaber Combat (or Melee Combat) and Unarmed Combat together by increasing the difficulty one level, and it only counted as one power "up".

I suppose you could do something similar for blaster slingers (maybe making them one difficulty level higher than melee weapons) and create your own group of Teepo Blaster Paladins (I think that was what they were called. I read about them in a pdf I downloaded once upon a time. I have it around here, somewhere.)

We always tried to maintain a cinematic style, and these changes worked well for that. If you are more of a realist, you may need to adjust things to suit your style of play.

[garhkal]

[jmanski]

[garhkal]

I don't see it as too much paperwork.

7d LS.
6d cont
5d sense

Guy has LS combat up (2 actions) and is taking 2 swipes. Total 4 actions. -3d off all.
LS goes to 4d, control to 3d and sense to 2d. Rolls 6d to hit, and if hits rolls 8d for damage.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[jmanski]

[cunning_kindred]

You are right but inflicting 8D damage instead of 5D is extremely significant. Also, this is not the reason that LS is broken. This is:

Guy is foul Boba Fett type:
Blaster 10D
Damage 7D with highly modified blaster (which personally I wouldn't allow )
Assuming starting Dex 4D and starting blaster 6D = 90 character points and a lot of effort getting the game-breaking blaster.

Guy is Lightsaber man:
Lightsaber 6D
Sense 4D, Control 5D
Assuming he starrted with Dex 4D and lightsaber 6D but no control and sense = 68 character point

Now, under normal circumstances, assuming both take two attacks both have 8D to hit and 7D to damage. Already this looks grossly unfair because the Jedi character has spent less character points and all he had to do to balance this out was take a couple rounds to activate combat sense and lightsaber combat. And of course, he also has control pain, resist stun, emptiness (which helps put up this power, making it all but impossible to fail), danger sense (which means he knows to put it up before things get bad), enhance attribute (that potenitally increases his ability to resist damage), the list goes on and on...

Now, someone spends a Force Point:

They both decide to take advantage of the situation and take four actions:
Blaster man now has four actions at 17D and still inflicts 7D damage
Lightsaber man has 17D to hit with all four actions as well and (here it comes) 10D damage - which is the same a thermal detonator.

Give the Jedi character the other 22 characters to spend and then say let him put control up to 6D and sense to 5D and not only is he already better than Boba all the time but he also gets to be able to inflict up to 17D damage to anyone he needed to whenever the need arises (and that's before he also gets the cheesy Game Master that allowed a 7D blaster to give him a double-ended lightsaber that also inflicts 7D damage )

That's really completely unfair. I think Jedi should be hard - they shouldn't destroy the game for everyone that chooses not to play one.

[jmanski]

Actually, the Boba Fett type would attack twice with 9d blaster. Should you lower his blaster skill to 9d (which would make two attacks at 8d) he would have spent 27 fewer character points- making it cheaper than the Jedi.

I agree the 7d blaster is a little outlandish. But there are all sorts of Fett wannabes looking for Thunderers.

I understand that LS combat is powerful- but when you consider that Jedi must attack from near point-blank while any other character can pick up a rifle and inflict 5d damage to a target 300m away. Also consider that in order to fully do their jobs Jedi need to have a very broad skill range.

Jedi are the "superheroes" of the galaxy- that's the way GL made 'em.
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Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?

[garhkal]

[cunning_kindred]