Melee Combat/Parry....same?

[Tahlorn]

OK, this has been on my mind quite a bit. Melee Combat, the abitlity to hit something with a knife, and Melee Parry, the ability to block something with a knife, are two seperate skills. Why?

As anyone who has trained with a standard melee weapon knows, you don't just learn how to attack or how to block; you learn the two skills simotaneously. Do you think there would be someone with the ability to use a sword that could hit anyone anywhere and get through any defense put up, but if an attack came at them, they would have a hard time blocking it? No. But with how the skills for melee combat are set up, you can obtain this problem by only upping Melee Combat but not Parry. The Lightsabre skill covers how to attack AND block in a single skill, so why not Melee? Again, it is not like these two skills are taught seperately. Sure, you might be better at attacking than blocking, or vice-versa, depending upon your weapon or training, but the skills still are completly related. Compared to the Lightsabre skill, upping your ability to effectively fight with a Melee weapon is twice as expensive, character-point wise. Is training to use a sword twice as hard as it is to use a lightsabre? No, and I think it actually is the other way around.

So can anyone clarify for why there are two seperate skills? I mean this for standard melee weapons, not exotics (whips, chain-knives, etc.).

Having a skill that is simply labled Melee (as in, both Melee Combat and Melee Parry) makes MUCH more sense than the skill Climbing/Jumping (which, in my mind, at two fairly seperate skills).

~Tahlorn

[Jamfke]

I have a hard time with rules like that myself. I'm working on my own system using 2d10 that uses one die for the attack and the other for defense. You also have the option to focus on attacking or defending explicitly, giving you both dice for one or the other.

Of course, that's not Star Wars, but hey!
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[Boomer]

Why are Climbing and Jumping the same skill? Are you telling me that the Rock Climbers are also going to make good High Jumpers?

Combine the Melee skills.
Seperate those two strength skills.

That fixes that.
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[Jamfke]

Good idea Lord!

*sorry, bit of a Python moment*
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[Krapou]

In my group we also regrouped melee+melee parry, and wa also add a 'close combat dodge' skill, in order to physically avoid beeing hit.
(and because one cannot parry a lightsaber, and because parrying a rancor is useless )

This skill works the same way as dodge, but only for attacks in close combat (melee, brawling, lightsaber, ...)

[Allst Beamem]

I compleatly agree, look at computer program/repair this is redickulas.

Using my self as an example. I can build a computer from the groud up, but program? Not a chance.

[Endwyn]

If it makes you feel better, every D6 product I've seen since Star Wars doesn't seperate the two, they are one skill. If I had to guess, I'd say when they were first going through the skills someone argued about how blaster and dodge are different skills and they are offense/defense. So Melee's two should be seperated like that too. Why they would have stopped there and not done the same for lightsaber, I can't say. (I'm just guessing as to why they are seperated to begin with. After all, early stuff had Droid Prg/Rpr together.)
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[Tahlorn]

OK< for Comp Porg/Rep- Makes sense to be grouped together, as for is how to fix or change a computer (building is different that repairing, as has to do alot with the code than hardware), and do you REALLY want to have two skills to up to do stuff with a computer?

I am others see this as a bad skill set for the Melee thing.

I like the idea of a 'close dodge'. In my martial arts (Aikido) we avoid swords and staffs all the time, and is more of a dodge than a brawling parry.

~T

[Endwyn]

It's not about if you would want to have to up two skills, it's really about if they belong together or not. I guessed at why the skills are seperated, but when it comes down to it the GM has final say if the skills are one or two. Comp Prg/Rpr is esentially the same theory as Droid Prg/Rpr; but they changed Droid Prg/Rpr from one skill to two in a revision and left Comp Prg/Rpr together. Does it really make sense that one of them should be together and the other not?

It high combat games, it can be difficult to keep all your skills up since you basicly have three different "dodge" skills: Dodge, brawling parry, and melee parry. In a low combat game the skills all being seperate won't affect most characters too badly. In a high combat game they do. WEG not groups them together, so the respective parry is just part of the skill. I don't see why a GM can't just house rule it to follow the new method if they chose in their game.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.

[Sabre]

I agree that melee combat/parry are better off as one skill, but I think the reasoning behind two skills is that some people are better at attacking than they are at defending. I've done fencing for about 7 years and there are a lot of people who will counter attack rather than parrying. In fencing you lose points. In the real world you'd be just as skewered as the other guy. Anyway, successive WEG games have combined the two skills. I think it's just a matter of how you like it for balance and gameplay.

[Boomer]

Computer Program/Repair makes sense, as you do learn how to do both, since you must understand the physical form and the sofware to understand their synthesis.

Of course you can always specialize in one or the other and truly know nothing if a physical problem is affecting the program, or a program error is why no part you repair or replace fixes the problem.

Droid Program and Droid Repair and seperate because programming a droid is like programming a computer, though not the same a droid brain is truly diffrent from a computer in many respects.
Droid repair, all those hydraulics, servos, power systems, there is absolutely no way programming anything can help you with what basically equates to a minituare walker/speeder thing.

As for Melee Specializations, when the question of combine, seperate, and this is just explained by someone specializing. The Swordsman understands exactly why he can use a sword so much better than a warhammer. But the man using a Warhammer has not specialized in either and can pick up and use anything like a weapon with equal skill.

You specialize with specific weapons in melee, specializing Hit and Block is actually impossible.
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[Tahlorn]

I have done fencing for a long time as well, and if you do a counter-attack, it still involves a parry in it, but slides into an attack. Also, as with fencing as an example, one does not learn how to attack without also learning to defend. I also parallel fencing with that of lightsabre (yes, I know it was based off of Japanese sword movements), and we once again get to the whole thing of lightsabre being one skill that encomposes all. Sure, some might be better at attack than defending IRL, but to try to replicate that by making more than one skill for it while ignoring other things of the same problem (lightsabre, comp prg/rep, etc.) seems to be odd. Going to make a proposal to the GM about switching the skill to one, and perhaps letting the characters with the Melle Parry skill already switch it to a 'close quarters dodge' type thing (which I think makes sense, as a punch and a cut can both be dodged, not jsut parries).

Thanks all for your input and responses!

~T

[Boomer]

I always ruled dodge was for dodging anything. If you can move out of the way, you can move out of the way.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Tahlorn]

That is how it is for the other system that I run. You can only block a projectile, you can parry an attack, and you can dodge anything It all comes down to the style of the character.

[Endwyn]

I see what your saying about computers, but would disagree. JMO, but I think building a computer, or repairing the physical structure of a computer is very different than programing code. I'm not saying that there aren't lots of computer people out there who can do both, cause I know there are. But they are very different things, to me just as different as droid programming and droid repair. I'm not saying you couldn't combine both or keep both seperate; but to be honest - they should both have the same treatment, either together or seperate.

The debate could go on forever though; Persuasion, con, and bargain are all really closely related. Perhaps they should be combined as well. (I would for certain campaigns, but not most.) One of my friend's best tricks was to con the character with the highest persuasion about something so when that character tried to talk to authorities they were persuading them since they actually believed what they were saying was true.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.