Character Point "Miscalculations."

[AcesAndEights]

In both of the games I am playing issues with skills being "too high" (meaning higher than earned CP would allow) have popped up recently. One of them was a legitimate miscalculation and the verdict is still out on the other.

The one has been handled by completely removing an attribute (control; this is a Jedi campaign and he had a good deal of dice in it.) via a dark Jedi. This miscalculation was relatively small and the moral character of the person is impeccable. We know, for fact, that it was an error.

The other issue will be resolved in the next day or so. If it too is an error, it is a gross error (talking 700+). This person has a somewhat questionable character(in the moral sense of the word, since we are talking RPs here.)

So, my general question is, how would you guys handle the unresolved situation. And also, do you think the punishment for the resolved situation was fitting? If you need any more information, feel free to ask.

[vong]

well, since you now know that they have questionably character, you can demand that they give you thier character sheet between sessions, so cheating is prevented, or avoided.

I have had a character in one of my games who would always cheat on dice, and i would see him doing it, so i would make things harder for his chr to do, making it harder for him to succeed until he stopped cheating. With regards to chr points, and having extra (along the magnitude of 700) im surprised you hadn't noticed before

i guess with regards to punishment, i would either penalize them on character points (i guess saying he as many as he was over, he is now under is too harsh, and may cause him to quit) i may bring him below the average by forcing him to create a new chr, or simply lowing his skills -> but i may even give him something debilitating to roleplay the drop in points (along the lines of he got captured, and they gave him an overdose of a drug, giving him a nice twitch, squeuing his ability to shoot, or such).

And of course, if you didnt like him that much you can kick him out. gaming should be more about fun, not about high stats. and a cheater is not always welcome :s
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[cheshire]

Give his character the death penalty.

I'm kidding, but if the cheating keeps up, you could probably resort to extreme measures. I've always watched character advancement very closely with players that are likely to make a mistake. But I would definately take a good close look at his character and at the very least take away the skills that have received the most benefit from his "error," until he's on par with the other characters. But that doesn't give him much incentive to not cheat in the future.

You could, of course, draft up a new character sheet for him and tell him that it's a backup in case his current character has bad karma.

[PsiberDragon]

Vong's brought up a good point - one that I had to deal with not that long ago, either.

Had players make up a characters. Before starting, we all sat down and I told everyone that I wanted to see their char. sheets. One guy said "Oh, I never right things down, I keep track of it in my head."

I told him that if he didn't have it written down, he wasn't playing. Luckily, I had extra Char Sheets in my bag. (Although, in retrospect, I wonder if that was the right idea... check out my other couple of posts about size to understand)

At the end, I told everyone to write everything down on a SECOND character sheet, and give me that copy. Basically, I told them it prevents cheating, either by them or by me. I could know if they'd modified anything and vice versa. Keeps everyone honest.

If there IS a descrepancy, in either direction w/out a VERY good explanation, the game would stop until it was resolved, and if necessary, the offending player would be asked to leave. Especially if it were a constant thing.
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[masque]

I made up Excel character sheets, and we always email the most current version of the character sheet to the GM. Works out great, easy to keep track of, and if someone forgets their sheet, they can just print it up.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

[Gry Sarth]

I always carry an up-to-date copy of all my player's character sheets, it's not so much to prevent cheating (I have trustworthy players who wouldn't do such a dumb thing), but so that I always have all the sheets in case someone forgets theirs or a game pops out of nowhere. It's also helpful when planning an adventure, to know how capable your group is in order to shape your challenges accordingly.

Character evolution is handled either at the end of the session or at the beginning of the next one. Everybody say what they'll increase and why, I have the option of allowing or disallowing it, based on what that character has done, and I immediately update my sheets.

Now, If I ever caught a player deliberately altering his sheet, I would be very pissed off. I would be very harsh to that character, probably killing him, otherwise I would lower his skills well beyond what he wrongly increased.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[vong]

and having them is good for secret rolls. altho it is fun to randomly ask everyone to make a search check to see if they notice something
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[Gry Sarth]

Yes, I forgot to mention that.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Ankhanu]

[vong]

got to love to watch em squirm
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[garhkal]

[PsiberDragon]

As for cheating at dice rolls, I've told all my players that, unless specifically told otherwise and for good reason (one character doing something secret), all rolls are made in the middle of the table, with another player making sure it's correct as far as number of dice and total.

Even if they are making a secret roll, I still have to see the results, myself.
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[AcesAndEights]

I personally feel that the miscalculation (the legitimate one) was handled a bit harshly. I think he should have been penalized, but I think that completely relieving a combat relient Jedi of his entire control attribute (all 14D of it) to be a bit crippling.

If the other player is cheating I think his character should be crippled a great deal, however. The GM informed me of the situation to help figure out the a round about number of CPs he had assigned. He mentioned that he will probably remove the characters Dex blander, thereby placing the character way into the red (the majority of his "miscalculations" were in the dodge, blaster and sniper (A) skills.) I think this is an appropriate punishment and am interested to see how things play out tomorrow.

[PsiberDragon]

Another option, if you have the time and the inkling, is to figure out how many CP's have been given (if you haven't kept track, that is) and have the player re-make his character from scratch, using just those points.

Of course, the problem there is how much time it would take to actually do such, and making sure you have the right number of CPs.

And, from that point on, keep track of the char. sheets. Solves pretty much everyone's problems. When the chars need improving, they can tell you and you can both figure out how many CPs each improvement would take.
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[garhkal]