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Quan
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Joined: 20 Jan 2012
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 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: Force Powers at the start of the game |
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Hey guys, how many force powers do you get at the start of the game?
The rules say:
"Learning Powers. When a character first learns a Force skill, the teacher also teaches one Force power pertaining to that skill.
A character may be taught a new power each time a Force skill is improved one pip.
A character may be taught a Force power without improving a Force skill, but the character must spend five Character Points.
A power that uses two skills — control and sense — counts as two powers when being taught powers."
So I wonder, if I put one attribut dice to each of the force skills and then put two of my skill dice (from the seven you get at the start) to each of them, too, how many force powers do I get?
1. One power for each skill (=3 powers alltogehter (one per skill))
2. One power for each skill for the attribut dice and one for each pip through the skill dice (that would be 21 powers (7 per skill))
3. One power for each dice in the skills (=9 powers (3 per skill))
I hope you can help me clarify this matter.  |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Since many people read that 'learning' to be counting as IN PLAY not starting out, most just give 1 power per D placed in the force skills, +1 per D starting out.. So you would if you started with all 3 force skills, and placing 6d into them starting out, have 9 powers total.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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I read the rules as saying that the first die in a Force skill gives you one power. From then on you get 1 power per pip of increase if you are training with a teacher.
So for the different starting Force Skill levels
1D = 1 power
1D+1 = 2 powers
1D+2 = 3 powers
2D = 4 powers
2D+1 = 5 powers
2D+2 = 6 powers
3D = 7 powers
This assumes the character was trained by a better Force user during his or her background. If that is not appropriate to the background then I would probably lower the number of starting powers to something between the above and 1 power per D of force skill. YMMV. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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To me that is IN game training, giving you the 1 power a pip.. not pre game making the character
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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The RAW (rules as written) state that if you start the game with Force skills then you get "at least one" Force power. I can cite a page number if you need me to. I actually just looked this up a couple of weeks ago for another player.
That being the case, it seems to me that there should be no more than 3 per D of each Force skill, and no less than one power. I usually start them off on the more conservative end with Force powers at the beginning.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Since many people read that 'learning' to be counting as IN PLAY not starting out, most just give 1 power per D placed in the force skills, +1 per D starting out.. So you would if you started with all 3 force skills, and placing 6d into them starting out, have 9 powers total. |
I prefer to give one power per starting pip, so a character with 1D each in CSA has nine Force abilities, with the proviso that certain skills must be picked first, such as Concentration or Emptiness. The idea being that the Jedi's training begins with basic meditative techniques that both initially broaden his awareness of the Force and provide him with useful abilities.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | This assumes the character was trained by a better Force user during his or her background. |
And just to be clear, about my intent, if you were trained by someone else in your background then your teacher (which likely means the GM) is going to have a strong say or maybe even control exactly which powers the PC starts with. |
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I read the rules as saying that the first die in a Force skill gives you one power. From then on you get 1 power per pip of increase if you are training with a teacher.
So for the different starting Force Skill levels
1D = 1 power
1D+1 = 2 powers
1D+2 = 3 powers
2D = 4 powers
2D+1 = 5 powers
2D+2 = 6 powers
3D = 7 powers
This assumes the character was trained by a better Force user during his or her background. If that is not appropriate to the background then I would probably lower the number of starting powers to something between the above and 1 power per D of force skill. YMMV. |
This is the way I read the rules as well. I really don't see a justification for doing it in a way that increases the amount of powers granted at character creation beyond this method, though I could see reducing it (as stated in Bren's above post).
If you create a character that has already learned Force powers, they had to learn them at some point, right? When they first began to learn the ways of the Force, is there some way that they would have learned three Force powers upon getting that first 1D in a Force skill instead of learning just one (like everyone else)? If so, then when an untrained character begins to learn the Force, you have to give them three Force powers upon gaining that first 1D as well, which doesn't really make sense. Giving starting characters 3 powers for their first 1D in a Force skill means that when they first tapped into the Force, instead of having a basic grasp of that one power that they'd just managed to grab onto for the first time ever, they suddenly had a basic grasp of three powers.
For those of you that feel Jedi characters need to be more balanced (I exclude myself from this category), why not use this common-sense approach to do so?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Since many people read that 'learning' to be counting as IN PLAY not starting out, most just give 1 power per D placed in the force skills, +1 per D starting out.. So you would if you started with all 3 force skills, and placing 6d into them starting out, have 9 powers total. |
I prefer to give one power per starting pip, so a character with 1D each in CSA has nine Force abilities, with the proviso that certain skills must be picked first, such as Concentration or Emptiness. The idea being that the Jedi's training begins with basic meditative techniques that both initially broaden his awareness of the Force and provide him with useful abilities. |
So if a starting jedi pc who took a template giving all 3 force skills puts his max 2d into each, makig them 3d apeace.. he would have 27 force powers?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Per the RAW, yes.
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Yinan
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Joined: 20 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, yes. |
No, that wouldn't be RAW. RAW (in 2nd R&E Edition) would be, that for the first D you get ONE power, and for every pip after that, you get an additional Power. So 1D/1D/1D would translate to 1 sense, 1 control and 1 alter power.
The problem now comes with the skill dice you can put into sense/control/alter at char creation... |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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We've had this discussion here before. When you get into the details, the RAW is worded vaguely enough that it could be interpreted either way.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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cheshire
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Yinan wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Per the RAW, yes. |
No, that wouldn't be RAW. RAW (in 2nd R&E Edition) would be, that for the first D you get ONE power, and for every pip after that, you get an additional Power. So 1D/1D/1D would translate to 1 sense, 1 control and 1 alter power.
The problem now comes with the skill dice you can put into sense/control/alter at char creation... |
The rules say that if you start the game with any skill dice in CSA, then you get "at least one" Force power. Right now it basically means you get between 1 and 27 Force powers (assuming your powers don't take up multiple "slots," such as lightsaber combat taking up both a Control and Sense slot).
Also, note that your character is not entitled to a force power every time they increase a skill, only when they are being taught by someone who knows a force power that you do not, and they wish to teach it to you. Conceivably, Yoda could have known TK kill, and decided not to teach it to Luke. Further, Yoda could insist that Luke needs to increase his skills before being taught any additional Force powers at all. Further, if someone does any self study, there is no proviso for them to be able to play catch-up with their Force powers.
That being said, I'd once house-ruled it in an all-Jedi campaign that they could play catch up once they found a Master to teach them, and they all learned new powers, though IIRC, there is nothing in the RAW that states that you must (or even can) do so.
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Matthias777
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Come on, guys. Regardless as to whether they were trained in the Force before character creation or they get their training afterwards, all characters have to advance using the same rules. The first 1D gives you one Force power. This is supported by the character templates provided by WEG:
| Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game - Second Edition, Revised and Expanded wrote: | Alien Student of the Force
Control 1D, sense 1D, alter 1D. You may select three Force powers.
Failed Jedi
Control 1D, sense 1D. You may select two Force powers.
Minor Jedi
Control 1D. You may select one Force power.
Quixotic Jedi
Sense 1D. You may select one Force power.
Revwien Tyia Adept
Tyia: Control 1D, sense 1D, alter 1D. You know the Force way known as Tyia. You may select three Force powers in accordance with the rules for the Tyia.
Young Jedi
Control 1D, sense 1D, alter 1D. You may select three Force powers. |
If you can come up with a way that you'd learn three Force powers by going from zero skill level (0D) to the lowest skill level possible (1D), then houserule it and go for it...but you should give characters that learn Force skills during the course of a campaign the same benefit.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Which is not the part we are arguing, but whether placing the extra skill dice in them gives 1 more power per D or 1 per pip.
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