New Force Rules

[Taliesin_Bardwolf]

Hey, hello everybody. First, I apologize for my english, 'cause I come from Spain, so it isn't my language.

Well, I'm gonna start a new Star Wars game after some years, and I have been re-reading the rules. But, like the last time I played it, I don't like the Force Rules at all. I don't like the "spells" system, 'cause I think Jedi powers are more...¿natural? I cannot imagine a Jedi learning each power one by one, but having a general instruction in the Force, and then using it directly for the effects he wants.

I have been trying with a variation of the rules, with Alter, Sense and Control, but without powers. The player says what he wants to do, the master decides which Habilities of the Force has tu use -Alter, Sense or Control- (and maybe with the powers of the rulebook as helping guide)and tells him the Dificult Number. He hasn't to learn that power, but only use the Force. It is more dificult than the original system, because the master have to decide, in each situation, the combination of Force Habilities, but I think is more realistic abut jedi powers. In theory, a Jedi with the basis can do everything he want, if he is as powerful as it takes.

Of course, this has a negative side for the player: it takes more character points to develop Alter, Sense and Control. Their cost is higher. This is to balance the fact that Jedi have not to buy Force Powers.

Besides this, I have been thinking about put penalties in some situations to the Jedi when he is using the force in a very concentrated way, for example, when he is using it to guide his lightsaber fighting. This is to simulate how a jedi, even the powerful ones, can be injured if he is distracted or too much lost in the force.

Finally, I have been thinking about other users of the Force. I will treat Sith and Dark Jedi (and maybe some Dark Side Adepts in the Court of palpatine) as Jedi, but with powers, like lighting force, that can be only used after character falls into the Dark Side, and maybe also after some training. And for others, like Dathomir Witches, I continue using the old system, to reflect his lesser knowledge about the Force, maybe with some bonus, to reflect that, although their range of powers is more restricted,
they can be more specialized.

Well, that is. What do you think about it? All opinions are welcomed

[Boomer]

Are you kidding me? Most people do not like the "spells" system of magic in games with spells because they think players should be able to make their spells from scratch.

My solution. I let my players make their spells, force abilities, or whatever from scratch. If you have another Jedi to learn from, that's great. But if not, than you simply describe the power as you want it and start building it from there.
You might get stronger in some abilities, weaker in others, but that alone makes it feel more realistic to me.

But you help you with your idea, which I also like, you just have to come up with decent tables to determine difficulty for the desired effects. Determine what each force ability controls and set difficulties for greater and less effects.
_________________
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I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Taliesin_Bardwolf]

Well, first at all... Boomer, as I said before, English isn't my Language, so there are some things in your post I don't understand. When you say "Are you kidding me"...do you mean I am laughing of you? :S Cause that wasn't my will :S I don't want to offend you nor everyone in his great forum :S

And when you say "Most people do not like the "spells" system of magic in games with spells because they think players should be able to make their spells from scratch" do you mean that you agree with them or that not? :S Sorry, I may seem so silly

About what each ability controls, I have take them as it is said in the Rulebook (example: Control = internal Force, etc). And aout tables for difficulty...well, I am an old Ars Magic master, so I am used to set difficult numbers at the moment, without guides, but you are right, it would be great to have them , so I'll try to make them if I have time.

Thank you very much for your answer, and again sorry if I offend you in any way

[Boomer]

You have not offended me in anyway. But I shall clarify, and help you with you English too. With Star Wars, the english language can be fun!

When I ask, "Are you kidding me?" I am verifying seriousness of the context in rhetorical manner. The question I know the answer to, you are indeed, not kidding. But I ask anyway to emphasise to all you are not kidding.
When you ask, "..do you mean I am laughing of you?" Of is similar to from, and certainly no laughter is coming of or from me. I beleive you meant "at". As in to send something (like a laugh) "at" something (or someone) else.

When I say "Most people do not like the "spells" system of magic in games with spells because they think players should be able to make their spells from scratch", this is a statement of my own observation, I never said I agreed or disagreed. I am not very opinionative, and am more fact based, so depending on which game I run or system I am in I will use a diffrent standard. I always hold to that standard from beginning to end for a game unless it turns out the decision was bad.

And now, to make a more detailed suggestion of what I think would be good for you to do with the tables.

In most of D6, we have general guidelines for difficulties. The most basic being the names of difficulty ranges (Very easy, easy, moderate, difficult, very difficult, heroic). And than descriptions of difficulty modifiers, such as why things are more or less difficult or set at a particular number.
By doing away with all of the powers, step on would be to explain a bit more in detail what the three force attributes do. Here is my suggestion for that.
Sense: The ability to know through the Force, to sense and feel through your connection to the Force.
Control: The ability to control yourself through the Force and/or let the Force influence, control, and change you.
Alter: The ability to influence, control, and change the universe through the force.

And than describe how much you could do of each one through the difficulty table. Such as the following here.
1-5; Jedi can learn a little bit about the immediate surroundings, can tell if there is someone behind without looking, can see moments in time, et cetera.
6-10; Jedi can learn about things beyond average perception, can see things behind or within a nearby room, can see minutes through time, et cetera.
11-15; Jedi Can learn much about an area. They can tell the intent of people closeby and can see the actions and details of things further away, they can see hours through time, et cetera.
16-20; Jedi can learn things most cannot know. They can see images of the minds of others, can discern details of objects miles away, can see days through time, et cetera.
21-30; Jedi can aquire much that is hidden. They can discern more specific thoughts of people close by, and can sense the presence of specific people for miles. They can see weeks through time. Et cetera.
31+; Jedi knows...

That table above could use some work, but it should get you started on some ideas.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Gry Sarth]

Well, I'm sure you've managed to get the poor guy utterly confused, Boomer.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Allst Beamem]

hell im a little confused

[Boomer]

It's what I do best.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Taliesin_Bardwolf]

Hey, thanks for the English learnings Now I can understand what you meant

And again thanks for that example of a difficulty table. I have take it as a guide, although I think I will make it a little more short, with difficulty ranges 1-10, 11-20, etc. I don't like tables very much, so shorter is better for me When I have one finished, I'll post it here.

And, of course, all opinions continue being welcomed

[Neo-Paladin]

I've worked up a homemade Force system (posted a few threads down actually), and I considered cutting out abilities. I decided against it simply because I may want to run games with force sensitives and non-force sensitives, and without a codified list of what the Jedi can achieve I thought the Jedi would be too powerful for a balanced game.

Also, I thought without a set list the Jedi would try things I’d never expect, or difficulties would change more than I would like.

I’d be interested to know if what you did worked, and how it worked.
_________________
Science is organized knowldge, wisdom is organized life
-Kant

[Boomer]

Glad I could be of help.

My table is based on the standard difficulty table. Scaling from "Very Easy" (1-5 range) all the way up to "Heroic" level (31+). To me, defining all difficulty levels within that range is best, since they are already balanced against the dice numbers players accumulate.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Taliesin_Bardwolf]

Well, now I am making the difficulty table for Sense skill. This will be the first I post here so you could see it. Next weekend I'll begin my game, so I'll try the new system. and I'll have some feedback from my players.

But I have to say you that my players are...¿lazy? about rules Well, I mean that they prefer to roleplaying, and trust on me all the rules ways, so I can have a system very...flexible, without a total precission. Yes, this takes me a greater effort, but till now it has worked very well.

But I'll try to make this Force system as detailed as I can,ok?

Ah, Neo-Paladin, I have seen your system, and been thinking about using some of your ideas, like Calm or Wrath Points, but I am going to go slowly, make first the basis, and then add atoher things that could complete it.

And again, thanks a lot to all of you for your help.

PD: I expect my English was better, but please, feel free to correct me all the times you need (that sure they will be a lot )

[Boomer]

[Taliesin_Bardwolf]

Jejeje, sorry Of course, I wanted to write "other" Thanks for the correction.

And about puncuation...well I must admit that that was another mistake, but it's true that, for me, putting them at the beginning and the end of sentences is a clearer way to write and read. So, if no one is against that, I'll continue using in this way, ok?

Thanks a lot all of you for your help and support

[Boomer]

Not only am I for it, I feel it should be standardized into the english language to ease reading. You keep using those cool upside down question marks.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Taliesin_Bardwolf]

Hey, hello everybody. I just finished the first table (for Sense powers) using Boomer's as as guide, and I have almost finished the second one (for Control powers). ¿How must I post them?¿as part of a simple post? ¿Like a attached document (¿is this the way to say it?).