Less than 2D

[gollummen]

Why does the stats for imperial personell in 3. ed. R&E have values below 2D for abilities (like mechanical 1D+1)?

[Krayt]

The 2D/4D is for heroic characters, who have 1D extra for each attribute, while non-heroics have a 1D/3D cap for the lack of the extra D to assign. That's what I've gathered about that sort of thing.
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[garhkal]

While that is true, i cannot ignore the fact that those npcs ignore the books own rules on racial mins and maxes.. SO i prefer to see them with 2ds..
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[MA-3PO]

[Ankhanu]

I would disagree. The Min/Max sets are for adult members of that species, heroic or not. Otherwise, why would the Attribute Dice ratings be set for average member instead of being set for heroic characters?

What it comes down to is simple mechanical oversight on behalf of the game designers. They've set the game so that 2D represents the average human level... yet they've also set it as being the lowest human level. Some character designers probably worked with the average concept, others worked with the minimum concept... hence, you have some characters designed who have less than average stats, and consequently, less than minimum.

[jmanski]

It's because the typical hero gets 18d for attributes and the "average person" gets 12d. They want, say, 2d+2 in Dexterity, so they rob +1 from 2 other attributes instead of just making some attributes higher.

And I agree with you, Garkhal, I like to use Heroic attribute levels for my bad guys (especially after a few adventures). The heroes have had time to use CPs, and the NPCs are generally not that deadly.
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[masque]

I stat out named bad guys and NPC's as I would a PC. I use those lower numbers for mooks, though.
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[Xynar]

I can see that lower stats show stunted development in those areas but all human NPC's should have a min of 2D.
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Xynar
The Great Adventurer

[garhkal]

Its cause of this, that i prefer mook npcs to have 14d, middling ncps to have 15d and major npcs to have 18d as the pcs.
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[Grimace]

Some of you guys are obviously forgetting the part where the "average" human is listed at 12D for attributes. Human attributes range from 1D to 4D. PLAYER CHARACTER attributes range from 2D to 4D to give the player characters an advantage over the NPCs. That is also why the PCs get 18D to allocate rather than the 12D of NPCs.

If you want your NPCs to have more attributes, that's your prerogative, but it in no way invalidates the intention that WEG created humans to between 1D and 4D, with a "typical" common human having 2D in an attribute.

If you want stronger NPCs to throw at your group, then create them. If you want super bad guys that are equivalent to the PCs, then create them. Just don't assume that the designers made a mistake when they didn't when they statted out the common NPCs. They're "common" for a reason.

[Ankhanu]

[Maur]

Actually the limits listed are the limits, even for extraordinary examples of a given species. Being extraordinary just gave you more dice to start with to spread into those attributes.

SW 2nd Ed. pg. 133
Human attributes minimums are 2d, maximums are 4d.

pg. 135
Sidebar "Roleplaying Aliens"
All alien player characters begin with 6d more than the species starting attributes - Just like humans. for example, if an ewok has 12d, then an ewok player character has 18d. When the attributes dice are allocated, all attributes must fit within the minimums and maximums given for the species.

these attributes may be improved with experience (up to the species maximum), but beginning characters must start within the attribute ranges for their species.
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[Grimace]

So are you suggesting that non-player characters of humans, with only 12D to allocate, are all the worst of the human race as far as quality in attributes? With only 12D to allocate, if 2D is the lowest that can be put into an attribute, then all NPCs would have exactly 2D in every attribute. They could never have more than 2D, because in order to do that, they would have to drop another attribute below 2D.

So NPC politicans, NPC soldiers, NPC ambassadors, NPC generals...they will all be 2D in every attribute...the absolute lowest that a human could be....if you say that 2D is the hard and fast bottom limit.

I say look at the examples given. NPCs have a limit of 1D / 4D for attributes, and only use 12D to allocate. PCs are better all around, getting not only more dice to allocate, but they also have a "low end" that is equivalent to the average human. The "average" PC is equal to an above average NPC. Do what works best in your game, but realize that, based on the examples given, common humans DO have less than the minimum, and the reason for this is that the minimum is listed for Heroic player characters, not the average joe bloe.

[garhkal]

[Ankhanu]