View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14213 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: Traps and death! |
|
|
Ok. Say you are running a module which has a trap of the BBEG's design that will kill most anything in it (say from a 2nd ed perspective, its minimum damage is more than most of the players other than 1 or 2 high up fighters who have yet to suffer damage), when it goes off. BUT to set it off, several things have to be done in order.
Now even withy you dropping warnings, hints etc, the pcs STILL do the things needed to set it off, but this is after those who might have survived have taken enough damage to make it lethal to even them...
Do you have it go off, killing them? Do you just play the 'save them card' and say they don;t die? If so, why even have it? _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hisham Commander
Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 432 Location: Malaysia
|
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
First of all:
I've had this happen to me before. It wasn't like was a out to kill them with a uber-lethal trap. It was just a room filling up with molten metal, there was a ledge upon which they could jump. Not even difficult, it was an easy task. But one PC botched the dice roll. I actually asked him to roll again. He botched it again. Then I told him the third time's the last time, if he botches it he dies. He accepted. He rolled. He botched. He had to roll up a new character. But he was okay with it... the dice failed him, and it wouldn't be fair to the other players to allow him to keep rolling until he succeeded the jump roll.
Second of all:
Happy birthday, Wolvie. _________________ The Enteague Sector | Cracken's Collection of Crackpots
In D6, of course. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Boomer Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 688 Location: Terra Sol
|
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
You already said they were warned. Death it is, than.
The players in my game have been willingly walking into deadly situations and coming out allright. I have come very close to killing two. Both have made their saves vs damage, but not by much. 3 more points on each of them and they would have made new characters.
One of them was the infamous Bana, who I later banned anyway.
The other was Jamfke, after receiving a complication during a skiff crash he almost died, and this was that character's debut session. _________________ My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Chabit Rane Commander
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 460
|
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, but that was not the same thing Boomer. I believe garhkal is talking about a complicated series of events. (If I'm reading your post right gar...)
What happened to Jamfke was just ....... bad. (I know, I saw, I was there, & and it was the worst run of bad luck I've seen in a long time. Needless to say, I was .) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14213 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the bday wishes...
And yes, Chabit is right, on the series of events.
Late friday night/sat morning (after doing my usual BSG/SG1-SGA fest), i was chatting with a long time friend on ICQ (goes by the name Ironwulffe) who was on about it. He ran an AD&D game at a weekend con near where he lives and had this big note about a tiered trap.
Only if step 1-5 happened in order, and only if they then went into the dark sanctum, did it happen.
He gave lots of warnings, hints etc, but when they still tripped it, he left it as is.
Half his 6 playes liked it, that he stuck to his guns. The other half went on a ranting spree. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jedi Skyler Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 8440
|
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, the ones who went on a rant? Send 'em here. We'll square 'em away for ya.
Bunch of sniveling pantywaists! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Boomer Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 688 Location: Terra Sol
|
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The point is, I will kill a character if the dice come up that way. I have no preconceived notions that a campaign must go exactly how I planned, screwing the dice results. I plan around the dice. I know dice results are random and uncontrolled.
As for what happened to your players, knowing you are walking into a situation where death is possible, and than dying, is not something to complain about.
If you do not want to die, do something safer. You were warned or otherwise understand the situation, you must take it for what it is. _________________ My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14213 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Skyler wrote: | Well, the ones who went on a rant? Send 'em here. We'll square 'em away for ya.
Bunch of sniveling pantywaists! |
As i said, they are not mine... but if i can get him to send them, then it might be good... _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Chabit Rane Commander
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 460
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Boomer wrote: | The point is, I will kill a character if the dice come up that way. I have no preconceived notions that a campaign must go exactly how I planned, screwing the dice results. I plan around the dice. I know dice results are random and uncontrolled.
As for what happened to your players, knowing you are walking into a situation where death is possible, and than dying, is not something to complain about.
If you do not want to die, do something safer. You were warned or otherwise understand the situation, you must take it for what it is. |
Well, first and foremost, I believe that the story must come first. This does not mean that you, the GM, must take the result of the dice as an absolute. It is a good point about the complexities of being a good GM.
If the party does something that mandates a reward, then reward them. Sometimes this is as simple as "fudging" the roll of the dice, or even making some minor changes to the adventure. At other times, the players are just "off balance" and need a break. But, death for death's sake should never be apart of a story without reason.
(Crud, just lost my train of thought....) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Boomer Captain
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 688 Location: Terra Sol
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is no death for death's sake. There is death where death occurs. Please do not shove words into my mouth.
No, seriously, to keep this on topic, they were warned, they saw it coming, so they should have no right to complain. If you put yourself in harms way, harm comes your way. That is 100% appropriate.
I also do not deprive players of something they should realistically have just because it is story appropriate. That goes for both negative and positive things they should have.
You shouldn't either. _________________ My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14213 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well said Boomer. As for me, while i won't (or try not to) deliberatly enginner a situation to kill them all, if that is the eventual outcome of the battle (space or ground) so be it. I will not shy away from it. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfe Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 91 Location: earth-need a vacation
|
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | There is no death for death's sake. There is death where death occurs. Please do not shove words into my mouth.
No, seriously, to keep this on topic, they were warned, they saw it coming, so they should have no right to complain. If you put yourself in harms way, harm comes your way. That is 100% appropriate. |
How true..
my players would revolt and be upset at handing them a get out of trouble free card "just for stories sake" or any reason, its about as rewarding as having somebody let you win at some game or running around in a video game on god mode.
If the players can only die at some dramatic moment then whats the point doing it at all?
you might as well be just writing a story and not play the game..
I have only seen games with such safeties produce players who go off over a players death, over something simple as what was described by garhkal.
If I gave them multiple hints and warnings and they still continue, I'd be saying as the death blows fell "It's time to trim the herd"..
I have seen players at conventions laugh at others doing stupid things and die, then they themselves do a darwin award winning move ending in death and whine and cry over it.
not every player MUST die on top of a pile of badguys holding the heart of the last one who killed him while defending the whole leadership of the rebellion, wearing nothing but a nose ring.
I'd be bored silly knowing that the game had safeties in it..
I didn't have any get out of #@$% free card in Panama, Somalia, Iraq, or Afghanistan, why would I want one in game.
With some of the situations been in I'd swear I was a PC run by somebody who has very bad luck with dicerolls.
How could I get that feeling of a job well done if theres a possibility that it was given to me (fudged rolls) not earned?
I've been screwed up by bad rolls in game(lost a pc or two over it), but they were nothing compared to getting screwed on the real battlefield.
Heck my latest pc (tech) has more replacement parts and synth flesh than real parts left on him.
his last bad combat roll (to hit) every dice was a 1, the damage was all 5s and 6s.. so i had to say the gods were conspiring against him and laughed at that (blaster had to go boom) then had to deal with a long recovery and a new cyber arm and jokes about being Mr. Right and why you don't screw with your blaster too much..
sorry no sympathy for them..
our group considers the bad rolls and such as roleplaying opportunities, not something for the gm to fix for us, we don't consider fudging it good game mastering, we call it what it is a crutch, and we as a group don't want it.
those who fail to listen to the multiple warnings and hints and so on and still continue and die deserve that darwin award.
natural selection at work there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kehlin Yew Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 223 Location: America
|
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Try not to forget to make your players think, if you have them pinned down and they know they will meet certain death to this group of Imp Officers... or whatever it be. The opposing groups leader could tell them not to advance.
(Based off of one of the events of WWII, Allies were trapped with ocean to their backs, and nazi's to their front, Hitler to them not to advance, no one knows why, Allies were able to evacuate france from the port of Dunkirk)
This would really get the players thinking, and when they got a big head you fix it! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
garhkal Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14213 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting idea Kehlin, but that to me, seems almost as 'hammed' as fudging the dice, so the pcs live... _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|