Space transport scale

[MA-3PO]

One of my players was looking at the scale chart in the R&E rulebook. He noted there is a gap in the modifier progression between starfighter scale and capital scale and suggested that adding a space transports scale would fit the game better. His argument was 'Why have three different piloting skills but only two scales?' For simplicities sake I am keeping the rules 'as is' in the rulebook but I thought his discovery was interesting. Has anyone else noticed and considered this?

[Jedi Skyler]

I hadn't noticed that personally. Part of that has to be the gap in time since I'd last played, the other part of that being my last GM never put us in situations where we had to worry overmuch about it. The more I learn here, the more I see my old GM shielded us from. Made for easy playing, but BOY did it leave me handicapped when getting back into it- especially with a bunch of pros like you guys (and girls!)

That is an interesting discovery. I'll have to look at it.

[Boomer]

This is NOT a discovery!

The Space Transports scale never existed, and should never exist! End of story.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[MA-3PO]

[Boomer]

Ok, thje scale progression is ONLY meant as a combat modifier when machines of diffrent structure fight each other.

1) It has nothing to do with size, but construction, armor thickness, and power output of the machine. AT-PTs aren't much bigger than a landspeeder and still have Walker scale, and a million other examples if you just use your own memory and think for yourself should make that argument for me in your own head.

2) Remember these are combat modifiers, nothing else. As long as the ships all have balanced stats everything is already working fine. I am serious, if you have ever actually played Star Wars D6 than you should already know that yourself!

3) Other than the fact that it just works fine the way it as, as 1 and 2 illustrate, above, 3 is that there is no reasonable argument FOR a space transports scale. Honestly, don't even start off with why not to have, start with WHY, because NO ONE HAS DONE THAT YET! THERE ARE NO POINST FOR THE SCALE, ONLY POINTS AGAINST!
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Jedi Skyler]

Dude... GREAT points... That's all I needed to know. As I said, in MY case, my GM had never really run us in positions where we ever used all that, so I'm coming back with a teensy handicap.

Just watch the people skills, bro. That coulda been taken as flaming. Maybe you meant it as such, maybe not. I just know you've mentioned before that your people skills could use work. I'm here to help, man! DIPLOMACY, brother! DIPLOMACY!

(And not the kind some of us really prefer, with a blaster. You know, "aggressive negotiations!"

[MA-3PO]

[Jedi Skyler]

That's what I'm saying. Boomer would be washed out of the diplomatic corps in a heartbeat... but he knows his SW D6!!!

[Vartax]

you need space transports skills, like people today needs skills in driving a semi truck with cargo, or a dump truck. They are similar in nature, but size and weight are way different, not to mention the amount of gears and extra buttons. Also flying a small plane compared to an airliner would apply. Now the scale as for capacity to hold large scale weapons still applies. A airliner can't have a hugh turret mounted on it like a battle ship. And takeing a direct hit from said turret would make it fall to piecies.

[Jedi Skyler]

Now that I have a little clearer picture, it's just like getting a license in the military. You can get a license to drive a 5 ton cargo truck, but that won't let you drive a 5 ton tractor pulling a trailer, nor will it allow you to drive a 10 ton tractor with OR without a trailer. You have to get trained on each individual vehicle. You might be ABLE to drive the different vehicles, provided the controls are similar enough... but if you get caught unlicensed, your butt's in a sling.

[Grimace]

DUN-duh-DAAAAA!

I have thought about and actually drafted an idea to include such a scale. I've never used it, mind you, but I've definitely instituted the mechanics for such a thing.

Why?

Because scale has more than simple damage resistance factored in to it. There is maneuver to account for as well.

Should a 100 meter Starfighter scale luxury liner have the same maneuver class as a top line Fighter? I'm not talking die code, I'm talking about the same classification of die rolls for dodging. If that makes sense to you, then why then does a 100 meter Capital scale Bulk Freighter suddenly so much less maneuverable AND more tough, than the aforementioned luxury liner?

How is it the Skipray is so small, yet pumps out so much power as to make it Capital scale...yet when it tries to dodge, it's in the same classification as a Capital scale when it should logically be able to dodge like a smaller craft?

Incorporation of a mid range scale brings things a bit more in line. Space Transports (which would likely fall into this category) would be more sluggish and therefore be easier to hit from a Fighter. Yet, at the same time, the space transport scale, being smaller than the typical Capital scale, would be slightly harder to hit but not as difficult as trying to hit the aforementioned fighter.

At the same time, if you had Space Transport scale weaponry (note: I DO NOT think that Space Transports weapons should automatically be upgraded to Space Transport scale. Many could still stay at Starfighter scale), you could put oddities like the Skipray into that, providing more punch to the weapons when it hits a fighter than another Starfighter scale weapon, but doesn't suffer the harsher penalty to hit of a Capital scale weapon. This mid range scale would also be closer to the Capital scale, so as to make the damage from ...for example...a Skipray be more potent than a Starfighter scale weapon against a Capital scale ship. Yes, I know the Skipray mounts two styles of weapons, both Capital and Starfighter, but with a mid-range scale, it wouldn't need to.

For the record, I also built in mechanics for a scale above Capital and below Death Star scale. I always felt it was rather ridiculous to go from a 1 mile long ship at Capital scale to a 30 mile long ship and still have it at Capital scale. I also found it hard to grasp the logic that a 30 mile long ship could mount the same classification (in power...not in die code) of weapon as a 150+ mile across Death Star. The power output of the Death Star should be so immense that such a small ship (by comparison) shouldn't be able to match the damage potential. Thus, a mid range was necessary. Likewise, I didn't feel a 17,000 meter long should be able to dodge in the same classification at a 100 meter long Blockade Runner in the Capital scale. I don't care if the maneuver codes aren't the same, the classification of dice rolled or caps given are, and that where the diference comes in.

So, in my worked up scales, I have:
Starfighter
Escort (could also be called Space Transports, but I thought the name was corny and inaccurate)
Capital
Battleship
Death Star

Again, I've not used these scales in Star Wars, but I've definitely put a lot of thought into how it would work. The sheer amount of reworking that would be necessary for Star Wars made me stick with the scales given in the game.

[Boomer]

Your right Skyler, I need to calm down... I suck at diplomacy.

But seriously, not even in Grimace's example above does a Space Transports scale make sense.

First, if you think the heavier cruisers need to be less manuverable, than turn down their manuverability. There are blurbs about ship construction that explain away that the larger and heavier ships are inherently less manuverable anyway, and it costs exponentially more to give them their engine capacity, fo slashing speed and agility is a must for cost effectiveness.

Second, if you are using R&E's dice addition table for your scales, you are always going to have problems. They will not end. Use Die Caps.

That's all I got.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[Grimace]

You must have missed the Scale thread. I DO use Die Caps. Always have, always will.

[garhkal]

Over on the holonet, we had this argument before... Here is a link to the thread...




Drats.... cannot locate it.. well at this time.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Boomer]