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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | How did you determine how much "aux power" each ship type has? can they increase that, by adding in more generators? |
That generally parallels my line of thought. A ship can get a reactor upgrade which provides more than the default 1D of Auxiliary Power (ships like the Falcon likely have this option), but can't use more than 1D into one system at any one time without risking a blow-out of some kind. |
What would the costs of those 'aux power' systems be?? And are they for freighters on up, or can small fighters/scout ships get them too?
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | In theory perhaps it sounds like too much, but the increase in the mishap roll (taken from Tramp Freighters), makes going all the way up to the 1D+2 max pretty risky and unappealing. An extra +2 would hardly be a game changer, but again, it is insanely risky to even try. |
Just to clarify, are you saying that 1) you can only use Auxiliary Power to counter damage, and 2) that any use of Auxiliary Power risks a blow-out? If so, that seems a bit more severe than how Auxiliary Power is used in the films. The X-Wing PC games make power-transfer even more commonplace, with power distribution being a simple matter of hitting a button or two, with no in-game consequences.
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
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Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | In theory perhaps it sounds like too much, but the increase in the mishap roll (taken from Tramp Freighters), makes going all the way up to the 1D+2 max pretty risky and unappealing. An extra +2 would hardly be a game changer, but again, it is insanely risky to even try. |
Just to clarify, are you saying that 1) you can only use Auxiliary Power to counter damage, and 2) that any use of Auxiliary Power risks a blow-out? If so, that seems a bit more severe than how Auxiliary Power is used in the films. The X-Wing PC games make power-transfer even more commonplace, with power distribution being a simple matter of hitting a button or two, with no in-game consequences. |
Per my own house rules only: you can restore up to the original value using aux power with no penalty or added risk. You can also boost above the normal system limits using the mishap modifiers from Tramp Freighters. It has been working well so far in my games and I have yet to see any character even try to boost any system above +1D over the normal system operations |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. I doubt I'd implement it in mine, since at least some level of risk-free power transfer is well-established in the EU. To clarify, I don't view the increase as feeding more power to Sensors, Fire Control, etc; what's actually going on is that Auxiliary Power is activating backup sensors, targeting arrays and the like that are normally on stand-by in case of damage. When using Auxiliary Power to off-set Damage, all that's happening is that those backup systems are being activated in place of whatever damaged component isn't working.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | at least some level of risk-free power transfer is well-established in the EU. |
Agreed.
| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Per my own house rules only: you can restore up to the original value using aux power with no penalty or added risk. You can also boost above the normal system limits using the mishap modifiers from Tramp Freighters. It has been working well so far in my games and I have yet to see any character even try to boost any system above +1D over the normal system operations |
In my system, up to 2D can be routed to a system, the first 1D in power coming from the aux power generator and the rest being rerouted from another system. The aux power is the safer power transfer. Any time one or more single systems are being boosted by more than 1D (which means it includes some power rerouted from another system), a 1 result on the wild die means that a Power Surge occurs, and that has some effects. If a system suffers a second Power Surge in the same scene, the system is immediately Overloaded (Lightly Damaged).
I have rules for boosting modified and damaged systems too. If a system has been modified, then the die code amount of the modification is subtracted from the maximum power that system can be boosted by. (Damage to systems causing penalties likewise reduces the power available to transfer accordingly.)
Damaged systems are limited to receiving a maximum of 1D (or +2 Space) in transferred power until repaired.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I don't view the increase as feeding more power to Sensors, Fire Control, etc; what's actually going on is that Auxiliary Power is activating backup sensors, targeting arrays and the like that are normally on stand-by in case of damage. When using Auxiliary Power to off-set Damage, all that's happening is that those backup systems are being activated in place of whatever damaged component isn't working. |
I didn't realize you see it that way. That is not at all the way I see it in my SWU. Perhaps this is the source of some of your dislike for my system?
Aux power is for more than just damaged systems. In my system aux power works best when there is no damage.
And I do not view aux power as activating backup systems. Aux power is just additional power routed to an existing system which can boost its performance within limits. There are existing separate rules for backup shields which many ships have, and those rules are independent from aux power. WEG also has a rare ship that has backup sensors which means most ships don't.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | What would the costs of those 'aux power' systems be?? And are they for freighters on up, or can small fighters/scout ships get them too? |
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=188824#188824
I priced them out at 15,000 credits, but part of my premise was that these come standard on all freighters, so they would be included with the ships and the cost would mainly be just for replacement. |
If they were 'standard', at 15,000 credits, and were part of each freighter, then freighters are CHEEP as hell.....
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
Just to clarify, are you saying that 1) you can only use Auxiliary Power to counter damage, and 2) that any use of Auxiliary Power risks a blow-out? If so, that seems a bit more severe than how Auxiliary Power is used in the films. The X-Wing PC games make power-transfer even more commonplace, with power distribution being a simple matter of hitting a button or two, with no in-game consequences. |
But the base X-wing game, alos has other stuff we don't see in the RPG, such as "Shields double front/rear", and shields only IN two arcs (front and back) vice six arcs for the rpg. So i am not sure i'd put so much weight on the pc game....
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | What would the costs of those 'aux power' systems be?? And are they for freighters on up, or can small fighters/scout ships get them too? |
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=188824#188824
I priced them out at 15,000 credits, but part of my premise was that these come standard on all freighters, so they would be included with the ships and the cost would mainly be just for replacement. |
If they were 'standard', at 15,000 credits, and were part of each freighter, then freighters are CHEEP as hell... |
I came up with that price considering that it is a replacement cost, so it could be that it includes labor. This is a ship power system that can route power to multiple ship systems. I imagine that it is a lot easier to install it during manufacturing than replacing it later.
If you read back in the thread, you were the one who originally insisted there should be a cost and I only added one for you. I asked for feedback back then. If not 15,000 credits, then what?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I didn't realize you see it that way. That is not at all the way I see it in my SWU. Perhaps this is the source of some of your dislike for my system? |
To clarify, this is how I view Auxiliary Power compensating for repairs, as well as for many of the functions of electronics. It's hard on electronics to run too much power through them, so if one goes the route of allowing a safe maximum of 1D being applied to any given system, then there needs to be a safe method of doing so that doesn't involve overloading said system. Powering up backup units to provide more sensory input is a safer option than running more power through something that just took a hit from combat damage.
I don't dislike your system; quite the opposite, in fact. I consider it far superior and better thought out than the RAW, and if I were to run a campaign where the group's mechanic / engineer needed a way to contribute, I would absolutely implement it. That's why I keep coming up with ideas for it, like the "Locking In" rule, or having Power Control dice as an option for the better, more capable ships. However, for the purposes of starfighter or capital ship combat, where a single individual's skill rolls are used to control all the functions of the ship, I consider Power Transfer by declaration only to be the most streamlined way to use the concept without requiring an additional skill roll for a character who's already eating multiple MAPs in combat as it is.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But the base X-wing game, alos has other stuff we don't see in the RPG, such as "Shields double front/rear", and shields only IN two arcs (front and back) vice six arcs for the rpg. So i am not sure i'd put so much weight on the pc game.... |
Six arcs? What game are you playing?
And it's long been a part of both games that shields could be adjusted to cover different arcs, just applied differently. Sure, I could do a Starfighter Shields rule where you could split the shields 50/50 front and rear, but then that adds the additional layer of the Left and Right Arc Shields now only providing 50% Cover, which adds the rolling of the 2D modifier for 50% Cover to attacks from that arc.
In the end, it's better for smooth gameplay to just take the concept and graft it onto the existing system.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Star Warriors maps use hexes but shields only had two arcs (shots can come from six directions but three will be to front and three will be to back at any give time). I don't know if that's what he is thinking of. I think he plays the FFG mini game but it uses squares and I don't know how shields work. He also may have been thinking about my RPG system which uses six arcs, the four normal arcs plus top and bottom.
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Ray
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | He also may have been thinking about my RPG system which uses six arcs, the four normal arcs plus top and bottom. |
Thank you for remembering that space is not an ocean.
The number of times I fought with my GM about going "Over" or "Under" a much larger, more cumbersome ship than mine... |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ray wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | He also may have been thinking about my RPG system which uses six arcs, the four normal arcs plus top and bottom. |
Thank you for remembering that space is not an ocean.
The number of times I fought with my GM about going "Over" or "Under" a much larger, more cumbersome ship than mine... |
Ugh, I'm sorry to hear you have a GM that forgets space is 3D. Have they not seen The Wrath of Khan where this was a plot point? They even dumbed it down for the average movie goer.
Of course, oceans are 3D too and I'm guessing they haven't seen any real submarine movies either.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ray wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | He also may have been thinking about my RPG system which uses six arcs, the four normal arcs plus top and bottom. |
Thank you for remembering that space is not an ocean.
The number of times I fought with my GM about going "Over" or "Under" a much larger, more cumbersome ship than mine... |
That's how i've seen it ran by Most every DM i have played under.. Top, bottom, left, right, front and rear arcs for shields.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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And yet, in every battle we see on screen, ships orient toward a common up/down plane. Even in the Wrath of Khan, while changes in "altitude" were used on two occasions, orientation relative to up/down remained constant.
There are a few possible reasons for this. The most prominent one that comes to mind is that, for a ship's main guns, there are limits to how widely you can disperse your weapons, as well as how great a fire arc they can cover, before you start cutting into their ability to combine their fire and resist combat damage. As such, weapons are mounted and grouped so as to be able to bring the greatest number of them to bear on an arc as possible. So, when an enemy ship is detected, the ship angles to place the target within its primary fire arc, thus establishing a new up/down orientation for the purposes of combat. So, while up/down may shift and end up wildly different from where it started at the beginning of the battle, ships will always be working to maintain it simply because doing so provides them the best firing angles for their weapons.
EDIT: WEG addresses this in the RASB, on pgs. 54-55. Attributes it more to psychological limitations of humans, but the more I learn about real-world ship design, the more partial I am toward it being a physical limitation of ship weapon design itself.
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