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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I have another game coming up pretty soon and it will be a Capital ship combat with my characters getting surprised from a rear attack by who they think it an allied Imperial commander. I definitely want to put Tactics into play and am just checking to see if you have a beta version of some house rules fir Tactics that I could try out and give feedback? If not, I have my own house rules to use but I am always interested in trying your rules to see if they can replace mine. |
Well, at the moment, it's tied in with my version of the Initiative Sequence, which in turn is tied in with my rewrite of Dodge and Melee/Brawling Parry. My current thinking is the 2R&E Initiative Sequence, but including Declaration, with actions being "locked in" at the time of declaration.
The bare bones version would be something like this:Success # = Result
0-10 = Advantage: gains a temporary bonus to one action. Tactician may choose one result from the list, or may roll twice to select two random results.1 = +1D to Gunnery
2 = +1D to Piloting
3 = +1D to Shields
4 = +1D to Initiative
5 = [Placeholder]
6 = [Placeholder] 11-20 = Anticipate: As Advantage, plus character correctly predicts what his opponent will do in the following round and preemptively plans a counter. The winning Tactician may "redeclare" his actions in the Initiative Sequence after his opponent has already declared.
21+ = Surprise: As Advantage, plus, character makes a sudden move or maneuver that leaves his opponent so flat-footed that he can't react to it at all. Losing Tactician counts as Surprised, as per the rules on pg. 296 of 2R&E. All Tactics roll results take effect in the following round.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I have another game coming up pretty soon and it will be a Capital ship combat with my characters getting surprised from a rear attack by who they think it an allied Imperial commander. I definitely want to put Tactics into play and am just checking to see if you have a beta version of some house rules fir Tactics that I could try out and give feedback? If not, I have my own house rules to use but I am always interested in trying your rules to see if they can replace mine. |
Well, at the moment, it's tied in with my version of the Initiative Sequence, which in turn is tied in with my rewrite of Dodge and Melee/Brawling Parry. My current thinking is the 2R&E Initiative Sequence, but including Declaration, with actions being "locked in" at the time of declaration.
The bare bones version would be something like this:Success # = Result
0-10 = Advantage: gains a temporary bonus to one action. Tactician may choose one result from the list, or may roll twice to select two random results.1 = +1D to Gunnery
2 = +1D to Piloting
3 = +1D to Shields
4 = +1D to Initiative
5 = [Placeholder]
6 = [Placeholder] 11-20 = Anticipate: As Advantage, plus character correctly predicts what his opponent will do in the following round and preemptively plans a counter. The winning Tactician may "redeclare" his actions in the Initiative Sequence after his opponent has already declared.
21+ = Surprise: As Advantage, plus, character makes a sudden move or maneuver that leaves his opponent so flat-footed that he can't react to it at all. Losing Tactician counts as Surprised, as per the rules on pg. 296 of 2R&E. All Tactics roll results take effect in the following round. |
I appreciate you taking the time to post this. I think I will give this a try, but will probably modify result 11-20 to: The opponent suffers an additional -1D MAP to all actions in the current round. I would do this due to the use of the 2ER&E Round sequence rather than 2E Blue Vader per a previous discussion. Thanks again! |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: |
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That works, too. Let me know how it turns out.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14212
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I like that 'tactics roll 11+ gives the succeeder, an "Advantage" in that they can Re-declare their actions, after hearing what the enemy is doing...
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I like that 'tactics roll 11+ gives the succeeder, an "Advantage" in that they can Re-declare their actions, after hearing what the enemy is doing... |
The only issue with that is players do not declare actions in 2E R&E. Action declarations were in 2E Blue Vader, nor R&E. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I like that 'tactics roll 11+ gives the succeeder, an "Advantage" in that they can Re-declare their actions, after hearing what the enemy is doing... |
Same, but honestly, I think Bidlo's suggestion of a +1D MAP encapsulates it just as well from a game rules standpoint.
Now I just need two more bonus options to fill in the Advantage chart.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10434
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:33 am Post subject: Round |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | If you decide to go with a hybrid or otherwise house-ruled combat round for your rules, then we need a dedicated post for that and please add it to your stats/rules index. It is vital for house rules like this that depend on a non-standard combat round. |
I'll be going the hybrid route, likely with some house rules, as well. However, Darth Reality is hitting me hard at the moment, and the concept is somewhat nebulous, and thus not ready to post. |
Let me know if you need any help putting the hybrid round together.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, here is the 2R&E compliant version of the Tactics Skill result table:Success # = Result
0-5 = Anticipate: +1D to Initiative
6-10 = Advantage: As Anticipate, plus a temporary bonus to one Skill that round. The Tactician may choose one result from the following list, or may roll twice (duplicate results stack):1-2 = Attack: +1D to one Offensive Skill for that round.
3-4 = Defense: +1D to one Defensive Skill for that round.
5-6 = Block: +1D to Shields or Cover, depending on whether combat is occuring in space or on the ground. 11-20 = Deceive: As Anticipate and Advantage, plus the Tactician briefly confuses his opponent, who suffers a -1D MAP for the round.
21+ = Surprise: As Anticipate and Advantage, plus, the Tactician makes a sudden move or maneuver that leaves his opponent so flat-footed that he can't react to it at all. Losing Tactician counts as Surprised, as per the rules on pg. 296 of 2R&E.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Perfect, I will put this to use very soon. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10434
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | ...All Tactics roll results take effect in the following round. |
I appreciate you taking the time to post this. I think I will give this a try, but will probably modify result 11-20 to: The opponent suffers an additional -1D MAP to all actions in the current round. I would do this due to the use of the 2ER&E Round sequence rather than 2E Blue Vader per a previous discussion. |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Okay, here is the 2R&E compliant version of the Tactics Skill result table:Success # = Result
0-5 = Anticipate: +1D to Initiative
6-10 = Advantage: As Anticipate, plus a temporary bonus to one Skill that round. The Tactician may choose one result from the following list, or may roll twice (duplicate results stack):1-2 = Attack: +1D to one Offensive Skill for that round.
3-4 = Defense: +1D to one Defensive Skill for that round.
5-6 = Block: +1D to Shields or Cover, depending on whether combat is occuring in space or on the ground. 11-20 = Deceive: As Anticipate and Advantage, plus the Tactician briefly confuses his opponent, who suffers a -1D MAP for the round.
21+ = Surprise: As Anticipate and Advantage, plus, the Tactician makes a sudden move or maneuver that leaves his opponent so flat-footed that he can't react to it at all. Losing Tactician counts as Surprised, as per the rules on pg. 296 of 2R&E. |
Some good ideas for the tactics skill here. These tactics results applying to the next round is the key to this working.
| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Perfect, I will put this to use very soon. |
These look like result points over the difficulty. RAW doesn't give a basis for what the base difficulties should be. Do you guys have ideas for that?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | These tactics results applying to the next round is the key to this working. |
Exactly. I didn't include that, but that's how it will work; any results rolled on the Tactics table will be applied the following round.
| Quote: | | These look like result points over the difficulty. RAW doesn't give a basis for what the base difficulties should be. Do you guys have ideas for that? |
Opposed roll against the enemy commander. If they don't have Tactics, roll against their Knowledge.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10434
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | These tactics results applying to the next round is the key to this working. |
Exactly. I didn't include that, but that's how it will work; any results rolled on the Tactics table will be applied the following round.
| Quote: | | These look like result points over the difficulty. RAW doesn't give a basis for what the base difficulties should be. Do you guys have ideas for that? |
Opposed roll against the enemy commander. If they don't have Tactics, roll against their Knowledge. |
So are these opposed rolls free actions? If not and they are a normal actions, a commander could just choose not to make a tactics roll. But I supposed the system could still work out if only one commander rolled tactics, with a default opposition being 0 for choosing not to be MAPped by a tactics roll.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | So are these opposed rolls free actions? If not and they are a normal actions, a commander could just choose not to make a tactics roll. But I supposed the system could still work out if only one commander rolled tactics, with a default opposition being 0 for choosing not to be MAPped by a tactics roll. |
Tactics would be a Standard action, with the Tactician taking the time to assess the situation and take in the details of the surroundings. If he has time, he could also make use of the Preparation rule.
I think a default opposition of 0 if the opponent chooses not to roll is a decent incentive for that "side" to always roll, so that they don't get tunnel-visioned and keep looking out for anything their enemy might try next.
For small groups of PCs, it'd probably be a good idea to throw in a Very Easy Command roll in order to pass on the bonus, as well.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14212
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
| Quote: | | These look like result points over the difficulty. RAW doesn't give a basis for what the base difficulties should be. Do you guys have ideas for that? |
Opposed roll against the enemy commander. If they don't have Tactics, roll against their Knowledge. |
AND if they chose NOT To roll, that to ME, says they set the base diff at 0!
| Whill wrote: |
So are these opposed rolls free actions? If not and they are a normal actions, a commander could just choose not to make a tactics roll. But I supposed the system could still work out if only one commander rolled tactics, with a default opposition being 0 for choosing not to be MAPped by a tactics roll. |
ITS an action, and to ME is a full ROUND action. Not something you do swiftly. So it would NOT be a 'free action'.
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
For small groups of PCs, it'd probably be a good idea to throw in a Very Easy Command roll in order to pass on the bonus, as well. |
I'd require that command roll, to pass on ANY bonus other than initiative boost...
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The commander of a ship should be able to use Tactics without worrying about MAPs because they most likely are not directly controlling anything on the ship at all, leaving those tasks to the crew. |
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