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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Adding Force Sensitivity post character creation is not the main problem I referred to, it is the Force Sensitive who learns Force Skills in game after character creation. |
Gaining Force skills is a natural consequence of Force-sensativity. I'm aware of what all you were referring to, despite the fact that I did not directly speak to it all in my reply. I do agree that is another problem with game balance, which happens even for PCs that do start out Force-sensative and not all three Force skills.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | When someone 'become' force sensitive after creation I assume they have been latent force users, but that the force hadnt yet manifested itself. |
That's something like how I explained it for the one PC I had that gained it during the campaign. I said he "finally realized his latent Force sensitivity" or something.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
When someone 'become' force sensitive after creation I assume they have been latent force users, but that the force hadnt yet manifested itself. So far no one has become force sensitive 'in-game', and only one player talks about becoming one.
I also think that the advantage of more ability dice is balanced by the fact that the new force user will be very crappy with his force skills for quite some time. Thats assumed that they have no teacher of course. |
How can one have not manifested the force.. From every thing in the EU on force users, you either have it or not...
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: |
When someone 'become' force sensitive after creation I assume they have been latent force users, but that the force hadnt yet manifested itself. So far no one has become force sensitive 'in-game', and only one player talks about becoming one.
I also think that the advantage of more ability dice is balanced by the fact that the new force user will be very crappy with his force skills for quite some time. Thats assumed that they have no teacher of course. |
How can one have not manifested the force.. From every thing in the EU on force users, you either have it or not... |
Until they suddenly come up with something new... 
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Rerun941
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 459
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I look at Force Sensitivity this way:
Not Force Sensitive: "asleep"
Force Sensitive: "awake" (even if they're not aware of it)
Force Skills: "awake" & "skilled"
There could be plenty of external factors to take a PC from "asleep" to "awake" (contact with a Force user or Force artifact/location) Heck, maybe there's even a previous unknown Force power called "awaken Force potential."
Who knows? The galaxy is a big place and the Force works in mysterious ways.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | How can one have not manifested the force.. From every thing in the EU on force users, you either have it or not... |
That's my personal interpretation of the universe featured in the movies, but WEG Star Wars is a large part of the EU, and on R&E p. 36 it says: | Quote: | | A character who is not Force-sensitive may choose to become Force-sensitive for 20 Character Points. |
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Bobmalooga
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Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 367
Location: The south...
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I had a player (someone who has gamed in my SWRPG games for the last 15 years) buy force sensitivity and in the following week the smuggler character he was playing was sent on a job to meet with another smuggler by the Hutt the pc worked for. He was to double cross the smuggler, killing him and his crew before taking the cargo and scuttling the ship for his hutt master. He wasn't thrilled with the idea asking if he could just beat the guy senseless as a message, but was told no.
He gets to the meeting, they lock ships together via airlock and are discussing payments and being late when the player springs into action and provokes a fight. In the course of the fight in the cargohold he kills the other smuggler but loses his blaster in the process. Through cunning the smuggler is able to lure the second in command into the cargohold, as it turns out the other smugglers S.I.C. was his wife. A fight ensues and he is able to get her weapon away from her and kills her.
As it stands he's killed two people and I felt that while it was a murky area to play in he at least had been fighting equals in fair fights...So he moves off into the ship to find the rest of the crew and discovers that 'the rest of the crew' is in fact the other smuggler's children a 16 yr old, an 8 yr old and a 7 yr old...
Now I gave him several outs in this situation, he didn't have to proceed, but he did and ended up killing the two younger kids. The 16 yr old was able to fake an escape on an escape pod (which his NPC partner took out with the guns on the other ship...) before hiding in the ship and biding his time in an effort to get revenge on the man who had killed his family.
The player ended up with two darkside points (Roll failed to turn him...) and the cargo in question turned out to be stolen Imperial foodstuffs. The NPC partner is horrified when he discovers that he had helped kill children and the smuggler (whose player has played Jedi in the 15 years I've ran swrpg...) is like 'we're not gonna talk about this, well take the cargo back and be in the clear...'
They arrive back in system to finish off the deal with their hutt only to find what was left of his operation and Jabba's forces leaving. It seems that the now dead smuggler was brokering the deal for Jabba with an unnamed party and caught wind that this other clan was trying to muscle in on his action. The PC, now stuck with 110 tons of stolen imperial food stuffs (Jabba's!) and 10000 credits (Counterfit and MeMaw's!) decides to pocket the cash and head back to the Rebellion base.
He gets back and begins to hear some grumbling that things are tough and that the food they're getting is leftovers from the previous week. He mentions to his C.O. that he has come into a large cache of food and that he will gladly donate the food to the rebellion. The C.O. agrees and thanks him for the generous donation (asking where he got the food, but not getting a direct answer...) telling him that he (the PC) and his squad are gonna get to help the Rebellion as an important contact has been killed and that they're gonna track down the killer and recover the stolen merchandise.
When the PC asks what happen (and I'm sure you see this coming...) he is told that the contact in question frequently got them important Imperial information, weapons caches and foodstuffs and in fact was an invaluable contact to them. Said contact (along with his family) were killed and the Rebellion wants to the matter looked into because it appears to be an inside job...
Needless to say things didn't go well after that, so yeah I punish for dumb behavior, but I tend to make the punishment fit the crime...LOL.
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Kytross
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Bobmalooga...
That was AWESOME!!!! |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | How can one have not manifested the force.. From every thing in the EU on force users, you either have it or not... |
That's my personal interpretation of the universe featured in the movies, but WEG Star Wars is a large part of the EU, and on R&E p. 36 it says: | Quote: | | A character who is not Force-sensitive may choose to become Force-sensitive for 20 Character Points. |
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Maybe i misunderstood Zz.. ZZ seemed to say that you regard it as they were latent force users before hand.. THat is what i was answering towards.
| Quote: | | Needless to say things didn't go well after that, so yeah I punish for dumb behavior, but I tend to make the punishment fit the crime...LOL. |
I remember this story from a while back.. Didn't you ask about it in relation to how many dsps he would have earned, or something like that??
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Bobmalooga
Commander
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
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Location: The south...
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
| Quote: | | Needless to say things didn't go well after that, so yeah I punish for dumb behavior, but I tend to make the punishment fit the crime...LOL. |
I remember this story from a while back.. Didn't you ask about it in relation to how many dsps he would have earned, or something like that?? |
It was on a different message board (either Holonet or wegforum, possibly both...) but yeah I've related the story before. It wasn't a bad adventure, but I essentially lifted the plot from 'No way out' with Kevin Costner. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobmalooga wrote: | I had a player (someone who has gamed in my SWRPG games for the last 15 years) buy force sensitivity and in the following week the smuggler character he was playing was sent on a job to meet with another smuggler by the Hutt the pc worked for. He was to double cross the smuggler, killing him and his crew before taking the cargo and scuttling the ship for his hutt master. He wasn't thrilled with the idea asking if he could just beat the guy senseless as a message, but was told no.
He gets to the meeting, they lock ships together via airlock and are discussing payments and being late when the player springs into action and provokes a fight. In the course of the fight in the cargohold he kills the other smuggler but loses his blaster in the process. Through cunning the smuggler is able to lure the second in command into the cargohold, as it turns out the other smugglers S.I.C. was his wife. A fight ensues and he is able to get her weapon away from her and kills her.
As it stands he's killed two people and I felt that while it was a murky area to play in he at least had been fighting equals in fair fights...So he moves off into the ship to find the rest of the crew and discovers that 'the rest of the crew' is in fact the other smuggler's children a 16 yr old, an 8 yr old and a 7 yr old...
Now I gave him several outs in this situation, he didn't have to proceed, but he did and ended up killing the two younger kids. The 16 yr old was able to fake an escape on an escape pod (which his NPC partner took out with the guns on the other ship...) before hiding in the ship and biding his time in an effort to get revenge on the man who had killed his family.
The player ended up with two darkside points (Roll failed to turn him...) and the cargo in question turned out to be stolen Imperial foodstuffs. The NPC partner is horrified when he discovers that he had helped kill children and the smuggler (whose player has played Jedi in the 15 years I've ran swrpg...) is like 'we're not gonna talk about this, well take the cargo back and be in the clear...'
They arrive back in system to finish off the deal with their hutt only to find what was left of his operation and Jabba's forces leaving. It seems that the now dead smuggler was brokering the deal for Jabba with an unnamed party and caught wind that this other clan was trying to muscle in on his action. The PC, now stuck with 110 tons of stolen imperial food stuffs (Jabba's!) and 10000 credits (Counterfit and MeMaw's!) decides to pocket the cash and head back to the Rebellion base.
He gets back and begins to hear some grumbling that things are tough and that the food they're getting is leftovers from the previous week. He mentions to his C.O. that he has come into a large cache of food and that he will gladly donate the food to the rebellion. The C.O. agrees and thanks him for the generous donation (asking where he got the food, but not getting a direct answer...) telling him that he (the PC) and his squad are gonna get to help the Rebellion as an important contact has been killed and that they're gonna track down the killer and recover the stolen merchandise.
When the PC asks what happen (and I'm sure you see this coming...) he is told that the contact in question frequently got them important Imperial information, weapons caches and foodstuffs and in fact was an invaluable contact to them. Said contact (along with his family) were killed and the Rebellion wants to the matter looked into because it appears to be an inside job...
Needless to say things didn't go well after that, so yeah I punish for dumb behavior, but I tend to make the punishment fit the crime...LOL.
Keith |
Id make that four DSP. Fair fight or no, he accepted to be a contracted murderer.... We have had few such events (none with a force-sensitive char though) in our games over the years (decades), and every time the GM really stuck it to us (either the sh*t hit the fan, or it was moral qualms or the like (as no one really played a cold blooded killer). If it would have been a force sensitive character I would REALLY hit him with a ton of brick (ie DSPs). Two for the above horrid actions seems very lenient IMO.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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I have thought of that in the past.. some other game systems say willful murder (taking payment for killing someone) is flat out evil... (ASSASSINS in adnd)... so would that not automatically make doing so a dsp event for star wars??
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Bobmalooga
Commander
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Location: The south...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: |
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I played it as a seduction in that case...at any time he could have turned away or simply stunned the people, taken the cargo and stranded them somewhere remote to live out a meager life...but he didn't.
I probably should have given him 4 dsp instead of 2, but again I looked at the adults as 'fair fights', if I had it to do over again...I'd give him the 4.
Keith |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I have thought of that in the past.. some other game systems say willful murder (taking payment for killing someone) is flat out evil... (ASSASSINS in adnd)... so would that not automatically make doing so a dsp event for star wars?? |
Especially if you are force sensitive...Id say killing for money and then kill all witnesses (including children) is really a Anakin moment..
If a non force sensitive character does the above Id give him one DSP.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobmalooga wrote: |
I probably should have given him 4 dsp instead of 2, but again I looked at the adults as 'fair fights', if I had it to do over again...I'd give him the 4.
Keith |
IMO it would matter if it was 'fair fights', as the character came looking for those fights (and even to kill the opponents). A force sensitive character has to walk a rather narrow path to stay on the light side. Jedis can get DSPs for being to eager going into 'fair fights' or using violence too lightly. There are a few examples of Jedis turning to the dark side fighting for the 'good' side during the clone wars.
But as you say, sometimes one would do it differently if one had the chance to do it again..
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Anakin
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I use to describe my way of Game Mastering as "the devils lawyer" -anything you say or do can and will be used against you. However I thoroughly avoid killing characters, and I am eager to let them succeed in the end. I go by a so called Hero contract; unless the players do really stupid things, I never kill them. But I can maim them and strip them of their possessions  In short terms: Penalization to the people!
All the problems that they end up in makes the game fun. I also like the fact that cybernetics reduces the impact of maiming...
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