Affect mind...

[garhkal]

Just thought of one that was said by a player once... Remember in Xmen 2, when xavier said to wolvie to put out the cigar or he would make him think he was a little girl...

Could someone do that?
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Kayle Skolaris]

Hey, it's definitely a change in your perceptions! Sounds fine to me. In fact, it reminds me of those old (and phony) hypnotist acts where the guy would pick someone from the audience and make 'em cluck like a chicken and bark like a dog. Affect Mind can be VERY humiliating if used properly.

Tangent Time! This reminds me of one of my favorite Cleric spells from AD&D: Command. 1st level spell that lets the caster issue a one-word command that the victim gets no save against and MUST follow for the next full combat round, which in AD&D meant the next sixty seconds. The major limitation is that the command must be a single word and be a clearly understood command AND the victim must understand the language it is spoken in. Now granted, at higher levels opponents become resistant or immune to it, but it's still amusing to play a less-than-reserved fighting priest who deals with drunken bar bullies by shouting "Masturbate!" at them! It's even more fun when the victim happens to be wearing full armor at the time...

[garhkal]

[Gry Sarth]

I don't think that would be just a change in perception. By altering a person's perception you could make them see their own image as that of a little girl, but he wouldn't think he IS one. As we discussed before, Affect Mind cannot change who you are, it can only alter your perceptions, conclusions or memories in order to make you behave like you wouldn't ordinarily.

I'd rule it's flat out impossible to make someone believe he's a little girl. That's not just altering one's conclusions, it's just too extreme. Much more so than making one believe that the Emperor is his master....
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Jedi Skyler]

I think I have to agree with Gry here.

Say you have stormtrooper X standing dutifully at his post. Stormtrooper Y is heading up to relieve him. Enter Jedi Joker, who's decided the best way to get past them is to convince them to take each other out. He uses Affect Mind on X to make him perceive the oncoming trooper as a vagabond (or a little girl-what the hey). After the successful roll, when Y says, "I'm here to relieve you," X is gonna think some nutjob civillian is messing with him. Since the stormtrooper corps are not overly trained in patience, this in itself might make for a firefight right off. It would probably at least result in weapons being drawn and aimed, which might then trigger combat reflexes, etc. etc.

I think that a drastic enough use of the Force in that manner would permanently damage the target's mind, rather than get him to believe he's a little girl. Picture it like this scene from Batman Begins, after Dr. Crane (aka Scarecrow) has sprayed his psycotropic hallucinogen in Rachel Dawes' face, and Batman has just entered their lair:

Thug: "What about her?"
Dr. Crane: "Don't worry about her. I gave her a concentrated dose. The mind can only take so much..."

Batman had to make a mad dash to get her an antidote so her mind wasn't destroyed. I believe such a concentrated attack via the Force would have the same effect; this is just too complicated a result to try to shoot for without using specific drugs.

Probably the only way this effect could be achieved through the Force would be to cause some chemical change in the person's body so they were, in effect, actually dosed with such a drug. But even then, I'm really leery about allowing that one.

[Aardon24689]

Going back to the beginning situation. I think I would allow the Dark Jedi to try to effect the single character. He would have to have a chance to talk to him, so it would probably need to happen before the actual battle. Or else it would be extremely difficult. He is how I see it going down. 1-5 have DJ surrounded. He looks at 2 and says. "What you don't know is that this is actually an elaborite trap I've setup for you. You're friends are all working for me. And now it is time for you to die at their hands." Then roll, Controll difficulty depending on how well your group gets along. If they trust each other totally make it difficult. If they are somewhat distrusting of one another already make it medium. Sense roll vs Perception. Difficult Alter roll.

So say the DJ rolls great. I would have the character roll play it just like the what the DJ said was true. I would expect him to take a few steps back, probably point his gun at the group. Then it depends on their reaction from there. It would have to go bad to end up in a firefight.

Let me not also that I would only pull this on certain players. A couple of the better roleplayers could handle this and make it into an interesting situation. I have a couple that would say, "Ok, I start shooting everyone." I'd never try this on them.

I'd never try the "Kill yourself" line. I'd allow the player to try it on an NPC. But I'd never tell them the target number, just make them roll. And it would have to be an astronomical roll.

Do we have any powerful examples of this in Film? I can't think of any. Its all pretty minor suggestions and Jedi masters don't even always succeed.

Oh BTW, I don't believe in telling my characters they can't do anything. I'll even let them roll to try just about anything they want. But that doesn't mean that if one guy rolls STR to try to fly he'll ever succeed, even if he rolls Heroic+1000 somehow. Now if they are trying something that will get them killed I'll probably play their uncoucous self and tell them exactly how likely to die they are if they try it.
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"You can't take the sky from me..." Wait wrong forum.

[Gry Sarth]

I remember a great scene in Knights of the Old Republic, where you can mind trick a guy in the street into jumping down a building to his death. I don't remember if you just told him to do it, convinced him he could fly, or what. All I know is it was great fun (and earned you a buttload of Dark Side Points.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Aardon24689]

[garhkal]

[Nico_Davout]

I have a question. In the rulebook it is said that his FP is modified by proximity (Control). Shouldn't there be relationship for Sense difficulty? In the very 1st edition, Sense Difficulty (target's Perception/Control was to be modified by relationship, in the 2nd edition, it was not).
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Nico,

Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3.

[Raven Redstar]

Because with affect mind, you're not really sensing them out, you're pushing an idea through, the difficulty would be ridiculous if someone was trying to affect the mind of someone whom they'd never even met before. +30? I've had a lot of players complain already about how hard this power is to use in the first place, with MAPs and everything. You almost have to be a jedi master to mess with an average Joe.

[Nico_Davout]

If you use "D6 Space" relationship table, it is much better for PCs, the highest modifier is +12 to the DC. I think this table is more balanced than original SW D6 table. This +30 for different race was completely out of touch IMO.

BTW, what difficulty for Alter would you use for Affect Mind if PCs want a NPC to tell them all he knows about particular person and the NPC originally wants to cheat them? I always chose "Difficult (..) if the matter involving the conclusion is very important to the target."
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Nico,

Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3.