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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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 Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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But that's not what I'm saying... 
I feel so misunderstood...
The hero could simply be employed at a ship yard (or something... will probably tweak this detail so that it is as interesting as possible), and works on the A-Wing during spare time with permission from the shop owner (or, maybe not, but that will be hard to pull off... would take some thought on how to make it feasible doing it behind the owner's back).
There also seems to be an assumption that the ship we find is wrecked to smitherines... A couple of parts were overheated and burned out. When the ship is finally operational, some of the systems (such as the jammer, and maybe some others like the hyperdrive and perhaps even the nav-computer... maybe others as well) are still not functioning... and of course, the body damage is mostly still there, though it is assumed to be minor enough not to interfere with local flight at sublight speeds.
Anyway, I already started writing up the origin story. When I finish it I'll post it for fun. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| RedKnight wrote: | | maybe its the R-22 Spearhead that has the missiles and is in Rebels ? |
I don't watch Rebels (for some reason, I just don't find it enjoyable). But now I want to look into this R-22 for curiosity's sake. |
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RedKnight
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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The Spearhead was apparently what the A-wing was developed from...you know if i think about it the Spearhead could have been a prototype 'Next-Gen Jedi Starfighter' okay i'm going to stop cluttering the thread with ideas for a Clone Wars game and go to my planing document
Edit: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R-22_Spearhead here it is on the Wookiee |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | The hero could simply be employed at a ship yard (or something... will probably tweak this detail so that it is as interesting as possible), and works on the A-Wing during spare time with permission from the shop owner (or, maybe not, but that will be hard to pull off... would take some thought on how to make it feasible doing it behind the owner's back). |
This is possible, but would require the other PCs to sit around on the same planet waiting for your character to finish working on the A-Wing. The GM will need to find some way to keep them occupied and involved until then.
| Quote: | | There also seems to be an assumption that the ship we find is wrecked to smitherines... A couple of parts were overheated and burned out. When the ship is finally operational, some of the systems (such as the jammer, and maybe some others like the hyperdrive and perhaps even the nav-computer... maybe others as well) are still not functioning... and of course, the body damage is mostly still there, though it is assumed to be minor enough not to interfere with local flight at sublight speeds. |
No, I get the idea that the ship is inoperative but repairable. My dispute is with your presumption that those parts will be cheap and just happen to be accessible at the local junkyard and still in serviceable condition. Now, if the GM were to require adventures, with acquiring the necessary parts as a reward for success, I could see it.
How is this going to tie in with your PCs connections to the other players?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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They actually cover what Naaman is getting at in the 2nd Ed. R&E:
Multiple roll tasks...
| Page 81 of Star Wars Revised & Expanded wrote: |
Sometimes a task is too difficult for the characters; you may want to break it down into several smaller, easier tasks.
The players will have a better chance of succeeding, but the job takes a lot more time.
Example: Steve's character, Drebble, is attempting to repair an ion drive that suffered damage in battle. Bill decides that the repair attempt requires the following rolls:
• A Moderate starfighter repair roll to realign the
power converter cells. This takes one hour.
• An Easy starfighter repair roll to disconnect the
fusion chamber from the alluvial dampers, and
prune the dampers to be fitted with a new chamber.
This takes about 15 minutes.
• Drebble couldn't find exactly the right fusion
chamber, but he found something close. A Moderate
starfighter repair roll is required to properly
hook it into the ship's drive systems. This takes two
hours. |
By breaking repairs down to smaller easier checks, a player can work on a high end star fighter (as Naaman stated "In his free time.").
On top of that, it says that he couldn't find the exact right part, but a moderate repair roll lets him modify and attach something close to get the fighter working again.
I hate to say this: most of what I've been reading has come down to flagrant difficulty inflation based on our own misconceptions of tech in the Star Wars universe. Just because the average person here can't work on a nuclear reactor, doesn't mean that if miniaturized ones were spread prolifically throughout the world, the average Joe might be able to rig something up to work in a pinch to keep power flowing to his space hot rod.
I respect McNeil and garkhal as veteran game masters and all, but I remember when the Star Wars game I played in just rolled around with everything being heroic difficulty, just because our characters skills were that high. Sometimes, we forget to leave our own preconceptions of life on Earth behind just because everyone here doesn't own a star ship or a snub fighter.
All I can say is: Relax fellas. Run stuff how you'd like and let other people play the way that they have fun. I'd let a character start with a rebuilt A-wing, or something close, because that way he's more attached to the ship. He's poured his blood, sweat, and tears into getting that bloody thing running again, and he'll be damned if anyone else smashes it up or takes it from him. It just makes for better drama. We have templates that start out with millions of credits in gear (I'm looking at you 'Privateer Captain') so what if someone has a speedy little fighter?
Thanks for taking the time to read my rant/opinion. 8)
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RR
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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(Concerning CRM's post)
Yeeeeahhhh....
That goes back to what I said earlier... our games run different: PCs start where their background dictates. GM finds some way to bring them together. Its never been a problem for us.
Consider Han, Luke, and Leia... they don't start out together, and it takes hours/days of gametime before Leia even joins the group. Or even just Han meeting Luke... it would take a lot of play time to reach that point.
The story does what it has to do to bring the characters together.
(Concerning RR's post)
Wasn't page 81 referenced eaier in the thread? It funny the things we overlook... |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, page 81 was referenced, with regards to double time granting a +1D bonus to repair rolls. The multiple task breakdown bleeds over from page 80 to the top of page 81, but the bulk is in the beginning of page 81.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | But that's not what I'm saying...
I feel so misunderstood...
The hero could simply be employed at a ship yard (or something... will probably tweak this detail so that it is as interesting as possible), and works on the A-Wing during spare time with permission from the shop owner (or, maybe not, but that will be hard to pull off... would take some thought on how to make it feasible doing it behind the owner's back). |
I would first off stop assuming the DM will just go with what you write out, and ask him first, if you could even do that in your backround.
| Naaman wrote: |
There also seems to be an assumption that the ship we find is wrecked to smitherines... A couple of parts were overheated and burned out. When the ship is finally operational, some of the systems (such as the jammer, and maybe some others like the hyperdrive and perhaps even the nav-computer... maybe others as well) are still not functioning... and of course, the body damage is mostly still there, though it is assumed to be minor enough not to interfere with local flight at sublight speeds.. |
Maybe that might be because you initially DID make it sound like it was wrecked...
| Naaman wrote: | | That goes back to what I said earlier... our games run different: PCs start where their background dictates. GM finds some way to bring them together. Its never been a problem for us. |
So if your backround sayd your guy was a veteran with multiple skills at professional level or higher, your DM would have to let you start with more skill dice??
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| RedKnight wrote: | The Spearhead was apparently what the A-wing was developed from...you know if i think about it the Spearhead could have been a prototype 'Next-Gen Jedi Starfighter' okay i'm going to stop cluttering the thread with ideas for a Clone Wars game and go to my planing document
Edit: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R-22_Spearhead here it is on the Wookiee |
I don't see it as clutter... its actually perfectly relevant. Though for my own purposes, Id have to retcon all the Disney stuff out of the story... I'm just not impressed with it so far. But it does present a precident for what I want to do. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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What is the max skill you allow your players to start with?
| garhkal wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | But that's not what I'm saying...
I feel so misunderstood...
The hero could simply be employed at a ship yard (or something... will probably tweak this detail so that it is as interesting as possible), and works on the A-Wing during spare time with permission from the shop owner (or, maybe not, but that will be hard to pull off... would take some thought on how to make it feasible doing it behind the owner's back). |
I would first off stop assuming the DM will just go with what you write out, and ask him first, if you could even do that in your backround.
| Naaman wrote: |
There also seems to be an assumption that the ship we find is wrecked to smitherines... A couple of parts were overheated and burned out. When the ship is finally operational, some of the systems (such as the jammer, and maybe some others like the hyperdrive and perhaps even the nav-computer... maybe others as well) are still not functioning... and of course, the body damage is mostly still there, though it is assumed to be minor enough not to interfere with local flight at sublight speeds.. |
Maybe that might be because you initially DID make it sound like it was wrecked...
| Naaman wrote: | | That goes back to what I said earlier... our games run different: PCs start where their background dictates. GM finds some way to bring them together. Its never been a problem for us. |
So if your backround sayd your guy was a veteran with multiple skills at professional level or higher, your DM would have to let you start with more skill dice?? |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Basically, when you have a long time group that has saved the galaxy hundreds of times in various campaigns, the players (at our table, anyway) get to make what we want. If I say, hey, I want to play a Jedi Master, GM might say, "yeah, okay, but you have to deal with an NPC padawan and keep him in line," or some such... presents a new kind of challenge that we haven't seen before.
The point isn't to supress the PCs and their stories. But rather to find ways to tell an interesting story and ways to challenge the players.
And, I relate to RR's remark about "heroic" becomining the atandard difficulty after a certain point... it does get a little irritating if the game happens to take that route. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | The story does what it has to do to bring the characters together. |
I get that, but the GM is the one responsible for telling the story, and it adds a lot to an already difficult job when you have to limit your story to one location all for the sake of one character's baggage.
Yes, the films do use separation, and I'm in favor of that as a technique, but if one were to convert the first film into a gaming session, the party is brought together less than halfway through (less if Leia is an NPC) and hit three different planets by the end. If your GM is including this character of yours, he can either bring the party together quickly or keep the party mobile, but he can't do both, and that limits a lot of his storytelling options.
A more workable scenario (IMO) would be to have the A-Wing need to stay mobile, so it has to be hauled around in the hold of a freighter while the characters adventure to locate and acquire the parts needed to affect the repairs (requiring multiple reduced rolls, per p. 81). This would, AFAIAC, bypass the high price of repairs (the characters are earning the necessary parts, after all), and the success or failure of repair rolls to install the newly acquired components can be used to dictate the course of the next gaming session.
This also opens the door to reoccurring villains, such as Imperial Intelligence agents on the hunt for the prototype Rebel Starfighter. They are the ones who killed the character's mentor under the circumstances I suggested above. The mentor, in turn, can be the connection between the character and the other PCs with the freighter (hired by the mentor to get the A-Wing out and away from the Empire).
When I said I'd think about it, I wasn't kidding. 
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14254
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | What is the max skill you allow your players to start with?
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Depends on race. Since some CAN start at 5d in an attribute, that means 7d max for skill(s), 8d if they have a spec in it.
BUT they still only cap out at 18d/7d starting out..
Well unless they are in sparks and have built up a character over a long period and are using the death and retirement rules...
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | The story does what it has to do to bring the characters together. |
I get that, but the GM is the one responsible for telling the story, and it adds a lot to an already difficult job when you have to limit your story to one location all for the sake of one character's baggage.
Yes, the films do use separation, and I'm in favor of that as a technique, but if one were to convert the first film into a gaming session, the party is brought together less than halfway through (less if Leia is an NPC) and hit three different planets by the end. If your GM is including this character of yours, he can either bring the party together quickly or keep the party mobile, but he can't do both, and that limits a lot of his storytelling options.
A more workable scenario (IMO) would be to have the A-Wing need to stay mobile, so it has to be hauled around in the hold of a freighter while the characters adventure to locate and acquire the parts needed to affect the repairs (requiring multiple reduced rolls, per p. 81). This would, AFAIAC, bypass the high price of repairs (the characters are earning the necessary parts, after all), and the success or failure of repair rolls to install the newly acquired components can be used to dictate the course of the next gaming session.
This also opens the door to reoccurring villains, such as Imperial Intelligence agents on the hunt for the prototype Rebel Starfighter. They are the ones who killed the character's mentor under the circumstances I suggested above. The mentor, in turn, can be the connection between the character and the other PCs with the freighter (hired by the mentor to get the A-Wing out and away from the Empire).
When I said I'd think about it, I wasn't kidding. |
Fair enough. Though what I envisioned was the whole thing starting after the battle (or, right before it) such that the A-Wing in question limps back to a safe place and th character is recruited by the pilots he rescued. In other words, the repaired A-Wing is part of the back story, not the catalyst for the adventure.
Consider Luke: in my mind, he does not become a PC until the moment he discovers that his house was burned down. For this character, the first act as PC is saving the day and then he is recruited into the alliance. |
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Dredwulf60
Line Captain
Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 911
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Sorry in advance to furthering the off-topic divergence. I'll make it brief...
Reading the annoyance in the writing of CR and Garhkal in Namaan dictating the bulk of his character's background to his GM reminds me of an incident when I was running a home-brew apocalyptic zombie game.
The PCs had been surviving in the wasteland-like aftermath (the game was set 15 years after the fall of civilization). One player had lost 3 characters in like 5 sessions. But he has an idea for his new character.
So between sessions he gives me this write up about how his character comes from a farm collective that learned to band together and fend off the zombie hoards. They have a working, productive society there, a real haven.
He describes how when you come of age, and you kill your first zombie in close combat, you get this scar on your cheek as a badge of honour.
He tells me that he is out scouting for new people to bring back to his group.
(This was in 2008...so it predates The Walking Dead TV show, and was fairly early in the graphic novels....just FYI)
Well....
As GM I had already decided that any groups of survivors are going to be rare. And here was a player character...through the simple act of trying to give his character an interesting background was giving the other PCs a safe-haven respite...unintentionally perhaps, but it was definitely mowing my grass by literally creating a chunk of the world that would change the dynamics of the society.
So...I allowed it.
Sort of.
The character was introduced as the player had forseen..he convinced the others of this haven and talked them into following him. But I had secretly determined that the character was insane and living in a fantasy. His haven had been overrun long ago and it had snapped his mind...though the character genuinely believed it....because the player did.
What a shock when they arrived at the safe haven...to find that it had been abandoned a decade ago. Forced to confront the truth, the PC had a springboard for an interesting reaction and role-playing session.
Sorry. That wasn't brief. But...there it is.
So. A-Wings eh? |
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