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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | What? Nof affected by relationship? That's crazy talk.... i've always used it with Sense modfied by relationship, I think. I'll do some searching to make sure there hasn't been some mistake.
But it d*mn well makes sense for it to be modified by relationship. |
Wow... I always thought it was modified by relationship as well! I just checked both Second Edition and Second Edition R&E, neither includes relationship modifiers. |
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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If anything, I'd swap the "modified by proximity" for "relationship".
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them." |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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That would still only modifiy the control roll, not the sense or alter rolls, which are based on the opponents perception/opposed control roll and what you are trying to do respectively.
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scott2978
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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While I would never tell another GM how to run their game, I would never allow an NPC to do what you're suggesting in my game. Imagine being the player in that situation, being mind conrolled into destroying yourself by the GM. There are several good reasons not to introduce such a thing into your game, things will eventually get out of hand when the players start doing it to your NPCs. "Hey guys, watch me make all the Stormtroopers shoot each other!"
It's not in the spirit of the game for a bad guy to walk up to you and make you kill yourself. Even if it can be done without technically breaking the rules, I'd definitly never do it. Mind controlling PCs is a game breaker IMHO.
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Xynar
Commander
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 282
Location: Northwest Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I agree to that.
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Xynar
The Great Adventurer |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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I emphatically disagree. In adnd for example we have many spells which grant control in some fassion over others. I would consider it majorlly unbalancing to only allow the pcs to ever use them on the enemy, and disallow the enemy the chance to use them on the pcs... Same with AM. If a baddie has it i feel it is wrong to have him NOT use it, on a pc... Otherwise why give it to him?
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Gry Sarth
Jedi
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, he has the right to try it, and it's up to the other PCs to try and stop him.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
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True dat, but what happens when/if he succeeds? Or has managed to isolate the one pc?
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Kayle Skolaris
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Brandon, MS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Then your players learn what the WARS in Star Wars means. RPGs are not meant to be havens for wish fulfillment. Yes, you're supposed to have fun, but characters die, that's part of the risk of the game. Sometimes that death is glorious and sometimes that death is ignominious. If you're unwilling to have a character die, don't play. There is no GodMode in RPGing. |
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scott2978
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but characters die, that's part of the risk of the game |
It's true, the risk of death heightens the suspence of risky activities during the game. I allow PC death in my own game, in heroic situations. How heroic is it to be mind controlled into suiciding yourself though? Again, put yourself in the player's shoes.
Sure there is mind control in D&D, but this isn't D&D. What I mean by that is, the D6 system and the Star Wars setting are really not conducive to that the way a fantasy setting with "magic" is.
Also, garhkal:
| Quote: | | I would consider it majorlly unbalancing to only allow the pcs to ever use them on the enemy, and disallow the enemy the chance to use them on the pcs |
First, we aren't talking about PCs doing this to NPCs. We're talking about NPCs doing it to PCs. When you stop to think about that, that's a problem, because the PCs can't do it. Mind controlling someone, especially in the example that we're discussing (of making a target suicide himself) is NOT something that a PC can do without earning a Dark Side point. Using the Force to make someone kill themself is NOT an act of self defense. So while you're saying that it wouldn't be fair for the PCs to do it when the NPCs can't, you are also saying that it's OK if the NPCs can do it while the PCs can't. Exactly how would you feel about that if you were a player?
| Quote: | | If a baddie has it i feel it is wrong to have him NOT use it |
You're the GM. Just because a baddie has something in no way means you are required to make them use it. Your job as GM is to make the game fun, not to try to kill the PCs.
Lastly, don't you think if it was that easy that Vader and the Emperor would have been doing it all the time? Why send Vader to go capture Luke when you can just mind control Luke into coming to you? Why interrogate Leah when you can just mind control her into telling you where the rebel base is? Why shoot lightning out of your fingers when you can just mind control Luke into killing himself? Why bother aiming at enemies when you can mind control them into flying right into your crosshairs? And don't even get me started on all the missed opportunities in the prequel movies... I don't think Jedi were meant to have mind control.
Scott |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | How heroic is it to be mind controlled into suiciding yourself though? Again, put yourself in the player's shoes.
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That is the second time you have said that. Where have i mentioned anything about the PCs getting told to kill themselves with this power?
| Quote: | | First, we aren't talking about PCs doing this to NPCs. We're talking about NPCs doing it to PCs. |
We have mentioned several times, about using it on npcs... though i will agree, for the most part it has been more of having them using it on the pcs..
| Quote: | | Mind controlling someone, especially in the example that we're discussing (of making a target suicide himself) is NOT something that a PC can do without earning a Dark Side point |
I am still trying to figure out where you are geting this idea from>? NO where have i mentioned about killing ones self. We have (or i have) asked about using it to make a person either A) feel their friends are now the enemy, or B) that palpy/some high ranking imp is their true master... where is that telling them to kill themselves????
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scott2978
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry garhkal, I did sort of make a mental leap there without segue. If a Jedi PC can be commanded to "go to the emperor" then he might as well be dead, right? Because we all know what Vader and the Emperor do with any Jedi they find.
"He will join us or die, my master."
And if you weren't his son, you probly wouldn't get the offer to join, just the other part :P
Scott |
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think this is where the GM comes in. I personally think it would take an ultra Heroic roll to convince someone to kill themselves-unless they were already borderline depressive anyway. Beyond that, it's just up to the GM to use good sense and good taste when using these powers.
Could an enemy Dark Jedi use this power to convince a PC of something really, really off the wall? Conceiveably so. Would it be easy? No. Would I fudge the roll so it didn't succeed? HECK NO. If I were going to do that, why make the roll in the first place?
The only way it'd be justifiable to deny this action is if there is sufficient case for that individual to have NOT LEARNED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Otherwise, anything goes. Anything else takes away from the realism of the game. And while a number of us gamers aren't all about the realism, and that's fine, there are a greater number still who want to see the game be as real as humanly possible, which means it could be done. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Very true JS....
And iirc did not the emperor turn many jedi, hence his high inquisitors???
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well, we also have to remember that there are a number of years in there that are only documented as "EU," so anything is theoretically possible. Since he trained different operatives to different levels of Force skill (Emperor's Hand vs. Darth Vader vs. Dark Troopers vs. High Inquisitors, etc.)
Plus, it IS possible (again, theoretically) that one or more of those operatives took on their OWN apprentices, which takes the possibilities out yet another generation... 
It's like Visa said: "Consider the possibilities." |
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