The Bad Batch [Spoilers Allowed]

[MrNexx]

[Whill]

[Darklighter79]

[Whill]

[Ray]

Maybe Omega is Transgendered?

[Raven Redstar]

[RedKnight]

If that is the case then it's a hell of a way to backdoor it in and shows that either Fillioni or some one else has enough sway at disney to slap their S&P people into submission rather then the other way around.

[Raven Redstar]

I personally don't care. I think that anyone is welcome to have cool characters to inspire them to do greatness.
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[RedKnight]

Oh i certainly wasn't complaining about it, just that usually i thought that was something the S&P people would get up in arms about.....not that S&P seems to be involved much at all given the whole Elite Squad executeing civilians bit early in the season.

[Whill]

The Bad Batch - Season 2 trailer
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[Sutehp]

[CommanderFocs]

[Whill]

I know people are watching TBB s2, but no one here is talking about it yet. I'm not caught up, but I just finished watching Episode 8, the senate one...

Since s1, something that never made sense to me was how TBB had the Empire so quick to do away with cloning. There is no slow phasing out of the accelerated-aging clones while taking the time to build up a more traditional force to supplant them. Manufactured soldiers with programmed loyalty would seem ideal for the new Empire, but within a year of Order 66 Kamino is destroyed and everything is being done to rapidly change to non-clone stormtroopers.

RotS portrayed clone loyalty to their programming as absolute. Commander Cody, who considered Kenobi a friend, showed no qualms about betraying him to Order 66, even though it was issued by some melty-face man in a cloak who slightly resembled Chancellor Palpatine. Clones had blind faith in Order 66 being necessary once issued. It was key to the grand scheme of executing the revenge of the Sith. The only possible way for the Sith to rule the galaxy in a tyrannical empire was to destroy the Jedi. TCW and even the beginning of TBB portrayed exceptions to immediate unswerving loyalty in clones to be extremely rare. Except for Crosshair, the entire Batch's loyalty to Palpatine was even shown as only delayed, so that they could dramatically get their inhibitor biochips out just before they succumbed to them.

But it has been becoming more apparent that the suggestion is actually the reverse, in the slightly longer term. The chip is faltering so more and more clones are waking up to the reality than they were duped to betray the Jedi, so it seems. So the Empire is destroying clones, and Palpatine manipulated the Senate into voting against clone rights to make it easier.

The concept of the Order 66-level loyalty in clones being so short term bothers me. Since the Emperor's power is not absolute and the Senate still has some power, it would seem to me that he would need blindly loyal stormtroopers to commit all the atrocities needed to suppress freedom in a tyrannical empire. Another way to create blindly loyal stormtroopers would be to brainwash them from early childhood, but it would take time to raise them. Clones would seem to be necessary for a while.

It is film canon that they did not stop making clones after the initial batches 10-9 years prior to AotC. Something the entire franchise seems to be forgetting are the infant clones shown in AotC and the dialogue about their being a lot more clones on the way. At the start of the Empire there would be clones of all various stages of development, including small children that could still be brainwashed by the Empire, so faltering biochips wouldn't matter. So far, the only clones shown in the Disney franchise were all ones that were already biological adults who fought in the Clone War, except for Boba and Omega, who are actually two of the oldest clones.

By the time of Order 66, there would actually be more clones that still weren't yet old enough to fight in the Clone War than the oldest ones who had. I guess, according to Disney, all the child clones were massacred off screen when Kamino was destroyed. Vader must be very jealous!
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[KageRyu]

@Whill, I have some thoughts and ideas on this and wanted to respond sooner, but I am having trouble collecting my thoughts of late and putting them into coherent passages. Also, with the Cartoon series from SW I watch them in a much more casual manner than the movies, and try to account for the fact they are generally aimed at younger audiences and so will have some things "kidified".

In regard to clone ages and appearances, I never actually watched Attack of the Clones in it's entirety and did not like what I did see of it story wise... I had always assumed Bobba Fett was of younger age because that was how Jango Fett wanted the clone, to raise as a son (at least that is what some of the friends I had who saw the film led me to believe). If their were scenes of infant and child clones, then I understand your points.
I do not remember the exact episodes or sequences, but several times in The Clone Wars when they returned to Kamino for episodes I do not recall seeing child clones at all. I may be misremembering, but the youngest I recall seeing looked to me as of High School graduation age going through the final test to see if they were viable. I am fairly certain I recall at least once when one of the Kaminoans was speaking about improving the cloning process since the early batches to produced "Fully Mature combat ready clones" much faster and with less chance of failure. Without knowing the exact episode I would have to track down and rewatch all seven seasons...so not in a hurry to find it. So from what I understand Disney has retconned out the existance of Child Clones except Bobba and Omega it seems (I could speculate to why...but might get close to rules about discussions not allowed in forums). I would guess that showing children created and bread just for war in numbers might be too close to a number of topics and issues that Disney is uncomfortable with and/or afraid might draw criticism they would rather not have to engage.

Regarding Omega - as was established, the entire "Bad Batch" were experimental clones who had undergone genetic tampering. I do not recall her being in the crossover episode of The Clone Wars that introduced Squad 99, nor was she a part of Hunter's unit really. Again, I could be mistaken or mis-remembering. The first time I remember her being introduced as a character was Bad Batch Season 1 episode 1. I had gotten the impression when she was introduced, she, too, was part of ongoing experiments, and had been engineered and created at the age she appears intentionally. I never thought they established well enough in the story why she was drawn to Clone Force 99, or why they felt they needed to go rescue her from Kamino having only met her twice and having no real emotional ties.

Even if I am correctly remembering an the clones were being "hatched" near maturity - you are still correct that not all would be aging out at the same time. Given the length of the Clone wars, and that multiple batches were produced over a period of years, the empire would still have a surplus of clones for a number of years. As to why this was not handled and addressed better I could only speculate, but perhaps they wanted to focus the story on the fact that with the current batch again out and being regarded more or less as property, and their lack of rights, as well as the lack of a plan to handle or tend to these clones aging out their were serious ramifications involved in the aftermath of creating this subservient army of clones. I feel I could say this better, but the words escape me right now. It is also possible that these issues of multiple batches aging out at different rates were "nuances" that the writers felt would either detract from focus, lessen the significance of the impact they were trying to demonstrate, or simply be lost on younger audiences. As it is some of these episodes are more politics heavy than traditional programs aimed at younger audiances, and risk losing the attention of the kids.

The issues with the biochips, as well as these issues with Clone Rights and clones being property, were addressed in many episodes of Season 6 of the Clone Wars. A lot of this is building and elaborating on material established there. It actually makes me think of an old Sci-Fi novel I read, Headlong into the Void by Frank Herbert (yes, that Frank Herbert) - early on in that book as a minor note to establish a little context was the mention of a ruling establishing all clones as property of their creator and not independent, living, sentient beings. Just reading that line back then made me shudder at the ramifications of it...and the story ark here in this part of the SW franchise makes me wonder of the writers are familiar with that work.
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[fogger1138]

Interesting discussion on doing away with the clones that has crystallized some thoughts of mine. I hope they address the change in clone behavior going forward.