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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | After all the variations, I think I like the 7.8 meter version as the TIE/sr, as an entirely separate from the Lone Scout A at 14 meters. |
I was picturing something in the 8-9 meter range, with the main hull extending slightly aft of the s-foils (and maybe tapering off somewhat so the thing isn't such an ugly brick). The TIE Bomber is relatively small, after all, so stretching it helps justify adding in a hyperdrive and living quarters.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | To me, it doesn't violate the TIE design lineage, in part because it predates it, |
| Quote: | | It was in Republic & general use before the Clone Wars; post-CW criteria shouldn't apply, but when i do apply it, it still holds up in my opinion. |
I checked Wookieepedia, and the only source for the LoneScout predating the Clone Wars appears to be the WotC book Ultimate Adversaries. This is a retcon of WEG sources, which describe it as a product of Sienar Fleet Systems, not Republic Sienar Systems. I will err on the side of WEG, rather than throw off the timeline for the development of TIE fighters by making them copies of a civilian scout, all because one WotC source said so.
| Quote: | | second its fore & aft profile is close to the standard TIE & most variants. |
There are three possibilities:1) the cockpit is exactly the same externally as that of a standard TIE ball, but is 2-3 times the diameter, even with this being the only ship to feature such an insanely outsized ball cockpit.
2) the cockpit is a standard TIE ball, but the fuselage is a ridiculously stretched TIE Limousine.
3) it's a standard TIE ball and WEG screwed up their numbers. Since there are no official examples of side or rear profiles of the LoneScout, but there are plenty of examples of WEG getting their numbers wrong, I know which one I find more likely.
| Quote: | | You don't like the Lone Scout; fine. Don't use it; design & use what fits your sensibilities. |
I do like the LoneScout. I just don't like certain stat choices made by the authors.
| Quote: | | i have made characters that used modified TIE Shuttles as their main craft, but they were not scouts. |
I fail to see how a TIE Shuttle would be of any use to a PC since it lacks a hyperdrive. It's designed as a high-speed inter-fleet transport, either for VIPs or high priority cargo
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | After all the variations, I think I like the 7.8 meter version as the TIE/sr, as an entirely separate from the Lone Scout A at 14 meters. |
I was picturing something in the 8-9 meter range, with the main hull extending slightly aft of the s-foils (and maybe tapering off somewhat so the thing isn't such an ugly brick). The TIE Bomber is relatively small, after all, so stretching it helps justify adding in a hyperdrive and living quarters. |
Okay, here is another quick try - 9 meters with a design that is not quite as boxy. Would you propose different stats for it aside from what you have for the 14 meter Lone Scout A?
https://imgur.com/a/KTCSM0e |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 607
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | After all the variations, I think I like the 7.8 meter version as the TIE/sr, as an entirely separate from the Lone Scout A at 14 meters. |
I was picturing something in the 8-9 meter range, with the main hull extending slightly aft of the s-foils (and maybe tapering off somewhat so the thing isn't such an ugly brick). The TIE Bomber is relatively small, after all, so stretching it helps justify adding in a hyperdrive and living quarters. |
Okay, here is another quick try - 9 meters with a design that is not quite as boxy. Would you propose different stats for it aside from what you have for the 14 meter Lone Scout A?
https://imgur.com/a/KTCSM0e |
Now THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! WEG describes the Lone Scout as typical TIE ≈ in width & height, but at 24 meters is about 4 TIEs long! That is what WEG intended!
SWTCG IN TYPICAL WotC fashion, DIDN'T THINK when they made the 3d art for the Lone Scout, they took a look at WEG's 2d art, DID NOT READ ANY WEG BOOK & made a guess... A BAD GUESS... that is thoughtlessly perpetuated & proliferated worse than the 8km Executor...
Lemmings... Human Lemmings...
The 3d ART IS WRONG! W-R-O-N-G WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | After all the variations, I think I like the 7.8 meter version as the TIE/sr, as an entirely separate from the Lone Scout A at 14 meters. |
I was picturing something in the 8-9 meter range, with the main hull extending slightly aft of the s-foils (and maybe tapering off somewhat so the thing isn't such an ugly brick). The TIE Bomber is relatively small, after all, so stretching it helps justify adding in a hyperdrive and living quarters. |
Okay, here is another quick try - 9 meters with a design that is not quite as boxy. Would you propose different stats for it aside from what you have for the 14 meter Lone Scout A?
https://imgur.com/a/KTCSM0e |
Now THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! WEG describes the Lone Scout as typical TIE ≈ in width & height, but at 24 meters is about 4 TIEs long! That is what WEG intended!
SWTCG IN TYPICAL WotC fashion, DIDN'T THINK when they made the 3d art for the Lone Scout, they took a look at WEG's 2d art, DID NOT READ ANY WEG BOOK & made a guess... A BAD GUESS... that is thoughtlessly perpetuated & proliferated worse than the 8km Executor...
Lemmings... Human Lemmings...
The 3d ART IS WRONG! W-R-O-N-G WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!! |
Which WEG book "described" the one Scout as 4 x the length of a standard TIE (other than the length in meters)? Because you like this concept so much and to do a standard TIE with a 24 meters design justice, I think I will go back and spend a little more time rather than just stretching the other design with no detail.
Last edited by Dr. Bidlo on Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Would you propose different stats for it aside from what you have for the 14 meter Lone Scout A? |
The main difference would be in what it can carry, say, 1 Passenger and 2 metric tons of cargo (which can be converted to Passenger Space if needed).
I also picture two versions: the TIE/sr military version and the LoneScout-A civilian one. The /sr would have an ordnance launcher (perhaps two, with one front and one rear) and maybe one of the rear dual laser cannon from the TIE Aggressor (on long-term missions, a two-man crew would operate on a 12 on/12 off schedule, so in emergencies, the "off" man would act as the tail gunner). The LoneScout-A would delete the ordnance launchers and the rear laser cannon in trade for more usable cargo space and consumables storage (although 1 year of Consumables is still ridiculously high for such a small ship).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Would you propose different stats for it aside from what you have for the 14 meter Lone Scout A? |
The main difference would be in what it can carry, say, 1 Passenger and 2 metric tons of cargo (which can be converted to Passenger Space if needed).
I also picture two versions: the TIE/sr military version and the LoneScout-A civilian one. The /sr would have an ordnance launcher (perhaps two, with one front and one rear) and maybe one of the rear dual laser cannon from the TIE Aggressor (on long-term missions, a two-man crew would operate on a 12 on/12 off schedule, so in emergencies, the "off" man would act as the tail gunner). The LoneScout-A would delete the ordnance launchers and the rear laser cannon in trade for more usable cargo space and consumables storage (although 1 year of Consumables is still ridiculously high for such a small ship). |
I like those ideas a lot. The civilian Lone Scout should be different than the military TIE/sr and your suggestions accomplish that nicely. |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, here is a comparison that includes a refined version of the small, long Lone Scout at 24 meters long per WEG, at 6.5 meters wide and 3.05 meters tall.
https://imgur.com/a/yk3BHZ5 |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Based on the placement of the vertical slots above the cockpit, I always assumed that part of the hull was curved, not a flat front. I'd really like to see a version of this that added a more swept look to the rear, so it starts relatively large at the fore and narrows down as it moves aft. Maybe the same with the wings, ala the TIE Aggressor (since I poached the tail cannon from it, why not).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 607
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | Okay, here is a comparison that includes a refined version of the small, long Lone Scout at 24 meters long per WEG, at 6.5 meters wide and 3.05 meters tall.
https://imgur.com/a/yk3BHZ5 |
*sniffles* It's beautiful!!!
Thank you, Doc B.! |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Based on the placement of the vertical slots above the cockpit, I always assumed that part of the hull was curved, not a flat front. I'd really like to see a version of this that added a more swept look to the rear, so it starts relatively large at the fore and narrows down as it moves aft. Maybe the same with the wings, ala the TIE Aggressor (since I poached the tail cannon from it, why not). |
Okay, one more version for fun... I think I have executed CRMcNeill's request in concept for the sleeker looking Lone Scout. It is still a box on a TIE cockpit, but it tapers near the aft and also has smaller/open solar panels for the aft section as well, similar to the Aggressor. I think I like this version the best so far. In the comparison, I removed some of the earlier big box concepts. I have left only versions that incorporate the standard scale TIE cockpit.
https://imgur.com/a/gSIPkOJ |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 607
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:36 pm Post subject: Lone Scout & Heavy Scout |
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My Plan, when i have a proper working computer, is:
-1- Scale the 2d WEG art with the TIE Advanced x1 {Canon} Length 5.8 meters; WEG Length 7.8 meters & Star Wars: Behind the Magic Length 9.2 meters might be recycled into future projects...
TIE Advanced x1 {Canon}
Length 5.8 meters
Width 6.2 meters
Height/depth 3.8 meters
Source: TIE Fighter Owners' Workshop Manual
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/TIE_Fighter_Owners%27_Workshop_Manual
Fully authorized and approved by Lucasfilm.
-2- With Lone Scout Height & Width determined, combine with WEG's stated Length of 24 meters. The Lone Scout-A & all model A variants will be Length of 24 meters.
-3- fluff to introduce new variants; Clone Wars veterans Commodores McNeil, Danvar, Boldi & Sterrm, authorized by Admiral Kant, create an R&D thinktank, to adapt the
Lone Scout line.
-4- Unless otherwise noted, all variants retain same height & width. Developed concurrently, the Lone Scout-B (Length 12 meters) & Lone Scout-C (Length 12 meters) are
undergoing final testing for mass production in 4 EY/15 BBY.
-5- c.5 EY/14 BBY the Lone Scout-D prototypes (Length 9-9.2 meters) are targeted by multiple parties for theft attempts. Captain Kurdleen Kennody goes rogue, attacking
Imperial facilities along the Mid Rim-Outer Rim borders with the EF76 Nebulon-B escort frigate Rian. Commodor Danvar uses Lone Scouts to hunt down the traitor, locating
the errant vessel in {tbd} system. When Danvar's taskforce attempts to ram the Venator-class {placeholder}, loyalists aboard the Rian sabotage the shields & hyperdrive
during the ongoing mutiny. The Rian rams the {placeholder}, snapping itself in two. A moment later the drive section explodes, disintegrating both halves of the broken
ship. The {placeholder} suffered minimal damage & no casualties. After-action reports indicate of the Imperial loyalist crew, barely half made it to the escape pods in
time. The remainder died valiantly fighting the traitors. Concurrent with this incident, stock & modified Nebulon-Bs begin to appear in Separatist fleets, rebel cells
& other criminal organizations. Following these events, Commodore McNeil creates a taskforce to investigate these matters, backed by High Inquisitor Sigil & Moff Kurgan.
-6- Lone Scout models B through D continue to please the Imperial Navy, which continually finds new uses for them & innovates experimental prototypes & variants...
Conversely, the Lone Scout-A models & variants are the enduring preference of the Imperial Survey Corps, as well as civilian & government courier services........
-7- c.6 EY/13 BBY Moff Kurgan uses a flotilla of his independently developed Heavy Scout-A Flying Fortresses to decisively end the {placeholder} Rebellion.
Heavy Scout-A Flying Fortresses Length 24m, Width ≈20m, Height/depth ≈18m
Heavy Scout-B Flying Fortresses Length 18m, Width ≈13.38m to ≈15m, Height/depth ≈13.5m
Innovations tested on Lone Scout variants of the -C & -D models filter back to the older models, creating new variants. c.7 EY/12 BBY High Inquisitor Sigil is producing
the TIE Sentinel & faster models (Space 7, Atmosphere: 350; 1,000 kmh, Hx1 & HB x10) of the Lone Scout-A & -B models for the Inquisitorius & Imperial Intelligence.
c.14-19 EY/5-0 BBY these innovations lead into the development of the TIE Sentinel's heirs, the TIE Oppressor & the TIE/ag "Aggressor" Starfighter models. |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 607
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:41 pm Post subject: Ebon Hawk & Millennium Falcon sizes & issues |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | My experiences with Frank have been much more positive than Whill's; if you like, I'll reach out and ask him about the LoneScout. |
Thank you, CRMcNeill! That is most appreciated! |
I heard back from Frank, and he said that they had been working on it, but ran into some issues. He forwarded me some images of the progress they had made, though:
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Thank you, CRMcNeill! This is welcome & insightful news! The pics are a nice bonus!
I do have a couple questions though.
Why are they working off of images from WotC, instead of the description which says it was 24 meters in length?
Is he in contact with, or have current contact info, for the artist Parmandilion? Parmandilion is credited as a contributing artist for some Deck Plans Alliance projects. |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 607
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: TIE/sr / Lone Scout-A |
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| Mikael Hasselstein wrote: | Okay, so I've been trying to learn more about the TIE/sr, or it's civilian version, the Lone Scout-A. This is a pretty well-known ship, given that it's featured in the 2nd ed. rulebook (2nd ed. 122-123, R&E p. 256, w/o picture), as well as in the GG8 - Scouts (p. 35).
I was just trying to quickly find an orthographic image to use in my Star Destroyer project, and I came across the image below, from a Hungarian-language website.
IMAGE: http://starwars.timba.biz/tervrajz/sfs/tie_lsa/LSA-2.gif
I have to say, this image disturbs me a little. It just looks waaay too long compared to width. Is this correct? Is it a false assumption of the artist (which I'm gathering he's doing) that the cockpit window is the same scale as that of a TIE-fighter? It certainly doesn't look like the image below, which is the Wookieepedia image:
Aside from the proportions, it doesn't look too bad, but should I use it for my developments? |
| Frank Bonura wrote: |
Parmandilion@att.net
is also known as "B.M.K." or "Brandon Michael Koller". Unfortunately, and to the best of my knowledge, Brandon is deceased. The above image is the largest scale he produced when he was alive. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Frank V Bonura
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_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
 
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 607
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:13 am Post subject: Revised & Expanded: TIE/sr / Lone Scout-A Design Lineage |
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I am continuing to work on it as i am able, the Revised & Expanded TIE/sr / Lone Scout-A Design Lineage, which starts with my interpretation of the original TIE/sr models, & progression into various latter models.
The various latter models will include at least two variants developed from CRMcNeill's ideas.
_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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