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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | | Yeah it seemed logical that several command hubs within a vessel like a Star Destroyer are capable of operating all its systems independently, or by rerouting redundant systems (such as Engineering to form an emergency Bridge). |
The X-Wing novel series specifically mentioned that Super Star Destroyers had an auxiliary bridge, presumably somewhere below the base of the command tower.
A dedicated auxiliary bridge makes sense considering the main bridge is so exposed, with those big windows. One well-placed starfighter shot (or kamikaze, ala ROTJ), and the whole ship is out of action.
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Kemper Boyd
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | A dedicated auxiliary bridge makes sense considering the main bridge is so exposed, with those big windows. One well-placed starfighter shot (or kamikaze, ala ROTJ), and the whole ship is out of action. |
In my New Separatists campaign the faction the player characters serve actually redo capital ships to split up the functions of the bridge into a Combat Information Center and a maneuvering bridge. The CIC is always situated in the best-protected part of the ship and the maneuvering bridge is never staffed during combat. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mdlake wrote: | | I've thought a lot about this. |
Well armchair notwithstanding you appear to have a good understanding of my plan and rationale for CompNav. The genesis in-universe is all political - an attempt at a power grab by some in COMPNOR, an attempt to prottect the New Order and ensure greater loyalty in the Navy by others in COMPNOR, and a means, by Palpatine, of dividing power and sowing suspicion among potential rivals. Out of universe, I fully expect CompNav to be a failure. But by including it, the players get a chance to defeat CompNav and to be responsible for the failure. And it adds rivalry and factionalism on the Imperial side which has the advantages you have mentioned.
| Kemper Boyd wrote: | | In my New Separatists campaign the faction the player characters serve actually redo capital ships to split up the functions of the bridge into a Combat Information Center and a maneuvering bridge. The CIC is always situated in the best-protected part of the ship and the maneuvering bridge is never staffed during combat. |
Don't they maneuver during combat? |
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Kemper Boyd
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Don't they maneuver during combat? |
They do, but the manuevering bridge is only used when having a visual is useful, for instance, when docking with a shipyard or another ship. I took the inspiration from BSG, where Galactica has a bridge but it's never seen during the series because it's too exposed for combat conditions.
Of course, in Star Wars ships have got shields but it's still an unnecessary risk to expose your command staff. Ask Admiral Krennel how it worked out for him.  |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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The US naval ships have 2 back up stearing/maneuvering bridges.. in the hull.
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: |
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I placed one in the hull just ahead of the main hangar, normally used for traffic control command centre. The other at the engineering control centre between the reactor and the engines, also within the hull.
Me an' the US Navy, we got it goin' on  |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14215
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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HUZZA
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | The US naval ships have 2 back up stearing/maneuvering bridges.. in the hull. |
So what's the protocol so that the two different areas don't end up giving conflicting orders during a battle and so that mutineers can't lock the loyal crew out by taking over the auxiliary bridge - or is it just as easy to do as Star Trek makes it? |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Neither are manned until needed.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Neither are manned until needed. |
So how does anyone know when they are needed?
What prevents mutineers from accessing the auxiliary bridge and taking over the entire vessel?
Redundant command centers are more trouble than benefit if there isn't a fairly failsafe method of only using them when they are actually needed. But how is that actually implemented especially in the midst of a galactic civil war. |
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'd guess we'd use security encrypted rank cylinders with heroic+ difficulties to reroute redundant control systems without security clearance and the Captain's authorisation from a bridge station.
There'd be a few things to consider:
you should treat large computer cores on capital vessels as a genius droid brain which communicates only using binary/electronic means and is solely concerned with operations/maintenance of the vessel, but has limited initiative.
ie. award it a computer power of 8D or more for an SD in regards to the specific running of the ship (not relating to anything else), allow it to lockout certain systems during security alerts on its own initiative unless a rank cylinder is inserted and a genetic identification made to unlock the system.
Call this a security protocol in case of the bridge being destroyed, the computer has limited initiative to recognise succeeding ranks as acting captain in this event, subject to a changing code and identification process among subordinate command level staff which must be satisfied.
If attempting to bypass the standard operating system of the ship, have your tech-commando roll against the droid brain and/or any bridge crew manning his station (so you should wind up with combating at least 10D+1 comp.prog/repair for average SD bridge crew, 2D+1 plus 8D computer power working against you to bypass secure systems protocols). You might also have minimum time to complete task modified by beating the opposed roll, start at an hour down to a minute to reroute the bridge systems, giving plenty of time for security forces to rally and hunt you down if you're an amateur trying to take over a Star Destroyer.
A Loronar strike cruiser you might have with a computer power of 6D, a Lancer frigate might have 4D. These secondary ships of the line might be combated capably using a high powered laptop computer like those in Cracken's field guide (1D to 5D computer power IIRC). You would need specialised security spikes (using a security roll to bypass initial lockouts for unauthorised access to a terminal).
You might have to perform some special requirement to even access the main computer core from anywhere but the Bridge, perhaps initiating an emergency protocol, such as decompressing a deck area as a prelimenary requirement of rerouting control from the Bridge.
Treat the ships computer core like a thinking creature that you have to convince to give you control of the ship.
If a dedicated team, with access to the necessary resources planned and prepared a mission to take over a warship...
But it shouldn't be easy, requiring a whole adventure mission scenario to perform. Otherwise allowing powerful Imperial warships like SD to be taken over by mutineers or other forces should only be done "off screen" where it is integral to the Gamemaster's plans for the current adventure.
I don't imagine it's something which happens very often. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Neither are manned until needed. |
So how does anyone know when they are needed?
What prevents mutineers from accessing the auxiliary bridge and taking over the entire vessel?
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Keys. Well at least on both carriers i served on.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Neither are manned until needed. |
So how does anyone know when they are needed?
What prevents mutineers from accessing the auxiliary bridge and taking over the entire vessel?
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Keys. Well at least on both carriers i served on. |
Wow. I'd have guessed locks. 
Those must have been some really big keys. 
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Are the auxiliary bridges manned when the ship is at general quarters?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | | I'd guess we'd use security encrypted rank cylinders with heroic+ difficulties to reroute redundant control systems without security clearance and the Captain's authorisation from a bridge station. |
Using Rank Cylinders makes sense, thought heroic difficulty seems a bit extreme for every lieutenant or above on ordinary ships. I thought that heroic was the computer security for the Death Star plans.
(1) If the captain is on the bridge which takes a hit killing or incapacitating the captain and of course shorting out or destroying the computer pickups then command should switch to the auxiliary bridge, but how does the ship's computer or the auxiliary bridge officer know what has happened on the now silent bridge?
(2) If all communication with the bridge is lost - say due to serious ionization damage, but the captain is still functional and busy trying to get bridge controls reestablished, isn't that going to be preceived by the ship's computer and the auxiliary bridge officer the same as (1)?
(3) Now suppose the bridge crew reestablishes control functions. What, if anything, prevents the auxiliary bridge officer from remaining in control?
| Quote: | | you should treat large computer cores on capital vessels as a genius droid brain which communicates only using binary/electronic means and is solely concerned with operations/maintenance of the vessel, but has limited initiative. |
A genius droid brain with centralized operations functions seems contrary to the shift in starship systems from slave-circuitry and computer control to vessels with substantial crews and human control of vital systems that we see in the Star Wars EU and also seems to conflict with the Clone Wars Republic design and Imperial design that again rely on human, not computer control. Realistically, it is probably easier to find one or two computer and droid experts to help slice a computerized ship than it is to overpower thousands of human crew members.
| Quote: | | If attempting to bypass the standard operating system of the ship, have your tech-commando roll against the droid brain and/or any bridge crew manning his station (so you should wind up with combating at least 10D+1 comp.prog/repair for average SD bridge crew, 2D+1 plus 8D computer power working against you to bypass secure systems protocols |
Or you could just bypass the connection between the main bridge and the computer and feed the computer data that indicates that the main bridge and captain are dead.
I'm not certain that a Star Destroyer would need better security than a light cruiser. As long as the computer functions are decentralized and limited, the SD has thousands of human troops and crew that will need to be overpowered to retain control of the ship. It will be much harder to take over than the few hundreds of crew on a light cruiser. The cruiser needs better computer failsafes.
| Quote: | | Treat the ships computer core like a thinking creature that you have to convince to give you control of the ship. |
I just don't see Star Wars ship computers as self aware in any sense. That seems contrary to the analog, switches and dials technology that we see in the films, especially the OT.
| Quote: | | If a dedicated team, with access to the necessary resources planned and prepared a mission to take over a warship... |
I think the real danger for ships that are smaller than a Star Destroyer is mutiny by a dedicated group of ships officers like the Far Orbit rather than a takeover by an outside Rebel force. |
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