two-weapon fighting

[cheshire]

I've tried almost exactly this sort of thing. It looks great on paper, but it falls apart in the playtesting. The deal is that advanced skills wind up being so expensive to build in the long run, that the people who just keep bumping up the lightsaber (or melee weapons) skill wind up surpassing them, even if they are taking multiple action penalties for using two attacks with their weapons.

Though you've added a few bonuses to the weapons, and that looks interesting. I'd like to see how it actually works in the long run during a campaign.
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[Delkarnu]

I thought about making it a normal skill, but I didn't think it should start at attribute level (too overpowered). I figured the cost was high, so I put in the bonuses and specializationsto balance the cost.

Example:
Raising melee combat from 5D to 6D costs 15cp, for that price you could get two weapon fighting: vibrosword to 3D+1 (1 for the adv spec. to start at 1D, 3 to get it to 2D, 6 to get it to 3D, 3 more for the +1, total cost 13cp) with the bonuses, he could roll 4d+1 to attack and parry against your 5D for attack and parry.

Maybe it should be a normal skill cost, but start like an advanced skill. The example above would have the full skill at 3D+1 for 12cp, or the person could specialize once they hit 2D, and get the specialization at 4D+1 (4 to get it to 2D as above, then half price for the spec. 3 to go from 2-3D, 6 for 3D to 4D, and 2 more for the +1) and could roll 5D+1 to attack and defend against your 5D (if doing two actions) or do a full attack and roll 6D+1 vs your 6D

[atgxtg]

How about:

-The advantage of two weapons is that the character gets a "free" action with the second weapon, for two actions before MAP peantlies.


-The draw back is that the difficulties for both weapons is increased by one level. (Plus the off-hand penalty for the second weapon).

-Character can take a "paired weapon" specialization of melee weapons, and melee parry skill.

That would make it tough to pull off, especially with the more exotic weapons, while worth it for experienced character. In the short term, paired weapons are more of a drawback than a perk, but in the long run, characters will be trying to beat the opponent's parry total, rather than the base difficulty, so the extra action will be worth the points spent in specializations.

[garhkal]

i like the suggestion.
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[cheshire]

Very interesting idea.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[Orion]

I agree, it's a very interesting idea.

atgxtg, would you mind expanding a bit on the "paired weapon" concept.

[Rerun941]

How about instead of a free action, a free reaction skill (brawling parry, melee parry) with the offhand?

i.e. - No MAP or offhand penalty for parrying with the offhand. (Penalties are still in place for attack.)

(This was the typical use of the offhand in real-world two-hand fighting styles.)
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[cheshire]

While there is a lot of truth in that, it isn't exclusively the case. There's a reason why a dagger or another rapier might have been favorable to a buckler, mailed glove, or other off-hand parrying device... they were sharp and could be used to attack if your first attack had failed.

There are a vast number of styles out there that use two weapons. While many focus on the defensive properties of the second weapon, there are others that focus on keeping moving and using your weapons with continual alternating strikes, particularly if your foe only has one weapon.
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Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.

[atgxtg]

[atgxtg]

[Ankhanu]

I kinda like the idea... but at the same time, I'm not huge on it

I think a change I might make to the rule would be that the second action (with the off-hand weapon) doesn't incur a MAP, but counts for any other actions taken.

Example, Melee Combat 6D with TWF, Dodge 5D
-- Attack with each weapon, each at 6D (no MAP for weapon 2)
-- Attack with each weapon, plus a dodge, Weapons at -1D, 5D primary, 5D (-1D MAP due to TWF), Secondary, dodge 3D (-2D MAP for a total of 3 actions)

I dont think I'd make Paired Weapons a specialization; there's no reason why this should be easier to accomplish than other Two-Weapon styles. As an advanced skill, or simply a separate skill, or keep it rolled into the Two Weapon fighting skill or what have you.
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[garhkal]

Going on this line of thought i present to you the following.

Two-weapon fighting. This skill which though is like a specialty of melee, actually works more like an advanced skill. It requires melee to be at 5d before getting taken, but the "new skill" starts out at the same D level as base dex. It increases at the normal rate (1cp per D) as normal skills.
When used the posessor can choose to either make 1 attack with both hands as if he was combined, or gains a free parry.
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[atgxtg]

[ZzaphodD]

Ok, as I introduced a dual wielding Dark Jedi I have to decide how I will handle dual wielding.

The main problem is that with the D6 system where you can attack several times for dice penalties, any rules that give you an additional attack are more or less moot. A single weapon wielding character can just attack one more time. Instead of buying a new skill to gain this attack, he may just buy an additional D in Lightsaber to offset his MAP. Any rule giving an extra attack can be compared to the CP cost of buying an additional D in the Lightsaber skill. Either its better to buy Dual Wielding or its better to buy and additional D. Its a zero-sum problem. If you want to go this way, you should make the Dual Wield better (ie cheaper) but require either hard to be found teaching, or certain requisites that keeps the the Dual Wield from becoming a no-brainer.

If you use a Duelling Blades variant with no multiple attacks its easier to make Dual Wielding special so I think Ill go with that.

What would you like the benefits of Dual Wielding to be? This is both from a realistic pow, but also cinematic? I guess being able to deflect the attack of your opponent with one blad while attacking with the other would be the main advantage. Perhaps (cinematic) an advantage to defend against two opponents attacking at once? Attacking two targets with one action (to quickly move through 'goon' opponents)?

Given the fact that you wield your weapons one-handed, should you have some kind of penalty vs someone using his weapon two handed (ie forceful attacks). Is this the way to 'counter' dual wielding, forcing the dual wielding character to use both weapons to parry?
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[Bren]

Here's a thought.

For two guns, one advantage could be dual attacks occur on the first action. Let's look at an example.

Johnny Two-Gun vs Han Solo ( solo...one gun...never mind). Both declare two actions.

If Johnny acts first he gets two shots before Han can take an action. Then (assuming he survives) Han takes his first shot. Johnny has used his two actions. Now Han takes his second shot. and Han one gun gets one shot for his first action, and one shot for his second action.

If Han acts first he takes his first shot. Then Johnny Two-Gun (assuming he survives) takes his two shots. Then Han (again assuming he survives) takes his final shot.

Something similar might also work for lightsabers or melee weapons. The two weapon strike looks like some of the dual attack moves we see Asaj Ventress make in the Clone Wars cartoons.