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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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LE-Series is designed to be, basically, an Astromech Droid that can talk, and be a companion during the long hyperspace trips. They're designed for Freighters, rather than Starfighters, as they can't fit in the slots.
And the stock Stats can be found in the "Droids" Sourcebook (Which I don't have, and probably can't borrow.).
My own LE-DO Droid is, so far, the most hated PC ever made in my group. He's a "Free Droid" that keeps trying to get other droids to rebel against their Biological Masters and stand up for their Rights as Sentient Beings.
So far, the group keeps threatening to tear him apart if he sends this message to any of their droids (Who are quite happy, and get twice the number of High-Grade Oil Baths, and better than regular maintence! Which, frankly, is what really makes a Droid happy.).
Even Crunch, my own PC, can't stand him. And, boy, were there some really funny conversations I had with myself on that... At least, until Crunch decided to use LE-DO as a battering ram.
(Just FYI: There is a bar in town named "Ledo" that is the local hangout for scumbags, and the character was designed based on this. |
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Vartax
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 203
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| For the longest time my friend I and I railed about droid pioleting, and even astrogation. but in the end it, we came to an agreement about skills vs. creativity. A droid can piolet, and astrogate, and shoot a blaster, but when it come to being creative in these skills, droids have limitations. Example: A droid flying a y-wing being chased by a 2 ties heading toward a small gap between to large astroids. The droid basic program is to perserve life (in most cases) and would either fly over, under or around, but through would be close to impossible. In any choice, the droid would not be inspired to fly into the gap and up in the chance that the ties might hit each other while flying in formation after the y-wing. |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Crell Damar wrote: | 4-lom learned the force tybalt...
remember, the force is in everything. |
| Rathe Ehtar wrote: | Yeah, and droids can learn. If their memory is not erased, they could have very complex personalities spanning decades if not hundreds of years! Why should they have a limit on dice for skills? I mean, if you ditch progaming all together, the droids have to rely on character points to raise skills like everyone else.
The longest droid ever to exist in my game was a little droid named "Bomber". Now he was a GMC, but he was played as if he was a PC. I doubt any of my players would disagree. He had thoughts and feelings like any other sentient lifeform. And about the forcesensitive thing, take a look in the Star Wars Revised & Expanded character templates section. If droids can't learn the Force, then why does it leave the section on Force Sensitive open, instead of putting No?
All I'm saying is give droids a chance. They may be property and built in factories, but that shouldn't make them bad character choices. |
It was my understanding that droids couldn't learn to use the force, become force sensitive or even have any force points and that R2-D2 (force points) and 4Lom were the exceptions to the rules... On the plus side this meant that droids were immune to Dark side points and never aquired any and many force powers (mind tricks for example) had no effect on them
So whats the deal is there a clear stance from WEG on this? |
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RedFox
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 196
Location: El Centro, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:47 am Post subject: Necro! |
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I always ruled that droids were completely immune to Sense and mind-affecting powers and did not accrue Dark Side or Force Points. Usually I'd give them more CP to compensate. I was unaware that Artoo and 4Lom were Force-sensitive though. If that's true, that throws a whole different spin on things.
I ran a droids-only game one time. The players had a blast. Even the one who hated the very idea of the game before-hand and played the mouse droid.
They were obsolete droids being shipped on an Imperial shuttle for termination / scrapping and ended up getting hijacked by pirates instead.
The hijacking went well but the pirates decided to ditch the shuttle and the "junk" droids and let it all fall into the local star. Of course, one of the droids happened to be an old astromech droid capable of flying the shuttle...
After a series of misadventures, they ended up finding an ancient derelict Xim the Despot battlecruiser complete with army of battledroids in the main hold awaiting deployment and a few old short range interceptor starfighters with Stygium cloaking devices.
Thus the great droid rebellion was slated to begin. Alas, the game is on indefinite haitus at the moment. I hope to revisit it again sometime, though. All the droid characters are in a manilla folder along with my campaign notes.
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Ooo, a droid! Can I fix it?
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Ray
Commodore
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1743
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I WANT TO PLAY THAT!!!
And I'd say that stock, constantly memory wiped droids can't have Force Points, but the Force moves in mysterious ways when the droids start becoming more "People-Like".
Force Sensitive, maybe, but never Jedi.
Mainly, remember, that PCs (Even Droid ones) are EPIC! They're massively more than the norm!
And, frankly, Droids have a disadvantage in the fact that they can loose *EVERYTHING* a lot easier than biologicals... One Memory Wipe, and there goes everything that made that droid what he/she/it was.
It takes a bit longer, and more in depth, to do that to a Biological... And there are *A LOT* less folks out there with those skills, whereas anyone can drag the Droid into a "Droids 'R' Us" and get him turned back into a slave. |
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 236
Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And, frankly, Droids have a disadvantage in the fact that they can loose *EVERYTHING* a lot easier than biologicals... One Memory Wipe, and there goes everything that made that droid what he/she/it was. |
True, there is always that possiblity but in another sense droids can be immortal. As long as thier "brain" is intact they can be put into a new chasis if thier body is destroyed.
Also I think there are upgrades a droid can get so it always stores a backup of its personality making it immune to memory wipes.
In all honestly I think some of the best roleplaying potential can come from droid characters. |
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Xzil Maru
Ensign
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Docking Bay 94, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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In what book or source does it say that 4-LOM actually learnt force powers. Online databanks say that 4-LOM was destroyed by Fett in the Dark Empire I or II comics, and rebuilt by Zuckuss who wiped his memory.
I can find no examples of force sensitve droids in the books I own. Also I'm not sure how a droid would be considered alive. Their certainly animate beings which can learn and adapt to situations (if they have the proper hardware installed) but they aren't alive.
I've never seen a problem with playing droids, they're really fun to play usually because their are such a lot of restrictions on them. And I was the R5 astromech with an inferiority complex, and chronic depression in Redfox's game. That was fun.
It always disturbed me that droids are like this horrible slave race in Starwars that are designed to be exploited.
EDIT the midicholrian explination sorta precludes droid force users unless there is something I'm missing about the phrase "Human Cyborg relations"
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Plook Bomdarb says "Will Kill for food." |
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Xzil Maru
Ensign
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 41
Location: Docking Bay 94, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Vartax wrote: | | For the longest time my friend I and I railed about droid pioleting, and even astrogation. but in the end it, we came to an agreement about skills vs. creativity. A droid can piolet, and astrogate, and shoot a blaster, but when it come to being creative in these skills, droids have limitations. Example: A droid flying a y-wing being chased by a 2 ties heading toward a small gap between to large astroids. The droid basic program is to perserve life (in most cases) and would either fly over, under or around, but through would be close to impossible. In any choice, the droid would not be inspired to fly into the gap and up in the chance that the ties might hit each other while flying in formation after the y-wing. |
See the section in Cynnabar's Guide to Fantastic Technology: Droids on the droid space transport pilot. Basically it can only fly by the book manuevers and you need lots of permits to let it take the helm, because droid pilots usually suck- their too predictable unless you use somekind of remote control technology like the automated TIEs have (see Dark Empire source book).
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Plook Bomdarb says "Will Kill for food." |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Skills and what/who can do them |
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| Vartax wrote: | | For years I have argued with some friends about the astrogation skill. Can droids use it to plot the course for you, or are they there only be a a resource to help calculate? |
Our modern computers do this, so Star Wars droids should be able to do this if they're programmed with the ability. An R2 has this as it's primary function. A protocol droid probably can't.
The rules suggest almost any ability can be programmed into a droid at very high skill levels. It is the depth of skills which droids lack - they are not adaptable. Remember when Han hands the tool to C-3PO and says "Here, see what you can do with it." The droid just looks confused.
Droids are a blast as player characters. They have some real advantages and the droid's limitations are part of the fun of roleplaying them. I require all droids to follow the three rules of robotics, so most NPCs ignore them. Droids are property and a player must own them. The player must "upgrade" his droid if he wants it to learn new skills although the droid should be able to improve any skill he uses. The owner is also responsible if his droid runs amok. The owner's and droid's players must cooperate. The characters work great when the players agree what the droid's function is. We have seen a droid save a party of player characters after the atmosphere controls failed.
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RedFox
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 196
Location: El Centro, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Xzil Maru wrote: | | Vartax wrote: | | For the longest time my friend I and I railed about droid pioleting, and even astrogation. but in the end it, we came to an agreement about skills vs. creativity. A droid can piolet, and astrogate, and shoot a blaster, but when it come to being creative in these skills, droids have limitations. Example: A droid flying a y-wing being chased by a 2 ties heading toward a small gap between to large astroids. The droid basic program is to perserve life (in most cases) and would either fly over, under or around, but through would be close to impossible. In any choice, the droid would not be inspired to fly into the gap and up in the chance that the ties might hit each other while flying in formation after the y-wing. |
See the section in Cynnabar's Guide to Fantastic Technology: Droids on the droid space transport pilot. Basically it can only fly by the book manuevers and you need lots of permits to let it take the helm, because droid pilots usually suck- their too predictable unless you use somekind of remote control technology like the automated TIEs have (see Dark Empire source book). |
I think it's because stock droids just can't be programmed with the kind of quick adaptive thinking and high reaction times necessary to make good decisions in stressful flight conditions (especially combat).
The Droid Armies in the prequels obviously aren't that on the ball, even the droid starfighters. And those things are controlled by a central control ship.
I'd assume that a pilot droid who's gone beyond the recommended limits of operation without a memory wipe could be almost as good as any organic.
Basically, if it's a PC then they can pilot just fine if they've got the skills. Just remember that they're eventually capped to 14D whereas organic sentients are not.
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Ooo, a droid! Can I fix it?
I have Star Wars stuff! |
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RedFox
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 196
Location: El Centro, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Xzil Maru wrote: | In what book or source does it say that 4-LOM actually learnt force powers. Online databanks say that 4-LOM was destroyed by Fett in the Dark Empire I or II comics, and rebuilt by Zuckuss who wiped his memory.
I can find no examples of force sensitve droids in the books I own. Also I'm not sure how a droid would be considered alive. Their certainly animate beings which can learn and adapt to situations (if they have the proper hardware installed) but they aren't alive. |
Indeed. Can anyone provide a solid reference to those claims of 4-LOM and R2 being Force Sensitive?
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Ooo, a droid! Can I fix it?
I have Star Wars stuff! |
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Hellcat
Grand Moff
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 11921
Location: New England
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Try the Tales of the Bounty Hunters short story anthology. At the end of the Zuckus 4-LOM story, 4-LOM says he's had a vision of him attending a Jedi Academy in the future. As far as I'm aware, nothing ever came out that. And Fett destroying 4-LOM only to have Zuckus rebuild him would have been in one of the Shadows of the Empire comics as neither Zuckus nor 4-LOM appear in Dark Empire or Dark Empire II.
And in one of the Tales comics there is the story Skippy the Jedi Droid. Personally, I hate the thing and hope it's one of those stories that is Infinities without a non-Infinities source refering to it.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14328
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Loc Taal wrote: | PC droids still have to spend character points to "process" this new logic that is programmed into them after someone installs the software or programs them. I never really liked PC droid characters. To me, it always seemed like you shouldn't be able to play a droid, just because it's a machine. Here are some excerpts from the Star Wars Roleplaying Game Revised and Expanded book:
| Quote: | ...droids are not considered life-forms in the galaxy at large: they are property...
...A droid player character must have an "owner"...
...since droids are property, they aren't accorded the same rights as organic beings...
...Droids may not be Force-sensitive... |
I always thought that droids should be NPCs insted of PCs, just because they aren't sentient beings. |
Agreed with that 'logic'. Side question for you. IF you were allowing a PC droid, would the 'skill' increases it gets be considered skillware upgrades or hardwired upgrades?
| Quote: | | For the longest time my friend I and I railed about droid pioleting, and even astrogation. but in the end it, we came to an agreement about skills vs. creativity. A droid can piolet, and astrogate, and shoot a blaster, but when it come to being creative in these skills, droids have limitations. Example: A droid flying a y-wing being chased by a 2 ties heading toward a small gap between to large astroids. The droid basic program is to perserve life (in most cases) and would either fly over, under or around, but through would be close to impossible. In any choice, the droid would not be inspired to fly into the gap and up in the chance that the ties might hit each other while flying in formation after the y-wing. |
Then you add in the thread i had a few weeks ago about droids not getting cp for spending to increase those rolls (unless it was a pc droid).
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Allst Beamem
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Memphis, TN USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I picture midichlorians with cybenetics LOL!
That would be so cool and would explain FS droids  |
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Allst Beamem wrote: | I picture midichlorians with cybenetics LOL!
That would be so cool and would explain FS droids |
Nanochlorians!!!
On a side note, the Second edition R&E makes note that it is possible for droids to become force sensitive, and weather or not they acrue and spend force points is up to the GM. There is mention made of whether or not sentience is the same as life, and droids can become self aware. They also dance around the subject of self aware droids learning the force without saying yes or no...
In the end, they dance around the subject leaving it open, and I feel they did this as to not offend any sensibilities. There are those who accept that machines can develop self awareness and sentience, and that may well be a soul. Then there are those of us against it, that although the machine may be aware of itself, it is just a machine. I think for this reason WEG left it up to each GM. It is really a touchier topic than it first appears, and requires much more specific detail on elements of a philosophical and metaphysical level.
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"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra |
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