Critical damage

[Whill]

I was scratching my head over what the hell you guys are talking about, so I did an google search for "Massive Critical and Keen" and got this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/kotor/comments/9bavto/my_only_kotor_question_ever_is_investing_in/

[Forceally]

Sorry. Like I said, I was going to incorporate the focusing crystals from the KOTOR games, but then I saw how changing the other components - power cell, blade emitter, focusing lens - could add damage or make it easier to deflect blasters, etc. So I decided to include them as well in my Force Compendium. The "Keen" and "Massive Critical" were the only parts I couldn't figure out how to convert to d6, so I came to the boards to ask if anyone had any suggestions.

I know what I can do about "Keen". As for "Massive Critical", I'm not going to bother about critical hits. That was covered in d20, which the KOTOR games used. So I'll just say it adds some additional damage to the 5D damage lightsabers inflict.

[Darklighter79]

Sabers in d20 had no extra special critical damage - just regular x2. Their advantage was ignoring the hardness of the objects (but not their hit points).
So blaster fire could be stopped by blast doors but not a lightsaber
or
one can cut a target behind the cover as it provides no protection vs blade

But I think there are plenty of ready rules in d6 to represent it:
1) additional damage from LS power,
2) additional damage from high hit roll,
3) Hull breach rules - both official and house rules presented on this forum,
4) Zorro d6 advantage rule for 6 on a Wild Die:

[Forceally]

Thanks for all your input. I got that segment done. Now for the crystals. Darklight79, as I said before, the listing you referred me to will help greatly.

[Mamatried]

[Forceally]

So wait. I know from the R&E book that if I hit a stormtrooper with a blaster shot, the armor will absorb some of the blaster shot's energy, reducing the damage.

I know that the lightsaber can cut through most objects. But let's consider this scenario from Jedi Outcast. In the game, we control Kyle Katarn, and we've seen him cut down stormtroopers easily with his lightsaber. That's expected. Nevertheless, even with the penetrating power of the lightsaber, wouldn't the stormtrooper soak up some of the damage, reducing the damage the lightsaber inflicts on the stormtrooper?

[garhkal]

Even in ATOC and such, we saw them having to work, to get lightsabers to cut through doors.. so i do think they still need to roll vs armor.
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[KageRyu]

In D6 a Lightsaber does not automatically ignore armor, nor should it. A target hit with a Lightsaber wearing armor still gets to add the armor to the damage resistance roll. The cutting power of the Lightsaber and it's ability to cut through things is reflected already by its not only high damage (5D energy) but the fact that force users with Lightsaber skill can add their dice of Control to that damage.

The issue with Blast Doors and other high damage code structures is that in RAW this may still not be enough to simply cut through - however as demonstrated in film and other sources, prolonged contact with a Lightsaber is cumulative on even the toughest sources. So I would propose for these situations allowing either a stacking bonus for multiple hits as if linked weapons over rounds, or a cumulative +1D per round of prolonged contact (a twist on the preparing/taking time rule applied to using a Lightsaber to cut through dense objects). RAW, to my knowledge, did not really address this.

Clearly, when Vader is struck multiple times on the arm and shoulder in the fight with Luke in ROTJ the saber did not just slice through him. Was this force resistance? His Armor? I have seen many explanations. I feel it was a mix of all of both.
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[Forceally]

That's my thought as well. Was briefly considering Mamatried's post.

[Whill]

[Forceally]

TNT is showing the Star Wars trilogies at least once every three months. Maybe even sooner. So no special effort's needed to see them again. Either wait for them to show, or get your DVR to record them. There's also Disney+ and the DVD/Blu-Ray if you have them.

[Darklighter79]

To clarify: in the newest d20 edition sabers ignore hardness/ damage reduction. But this attribute is assigned to objects/ vehicles/ ships and some creatures' natural armor.

Regular armors however provide "armor bonus" which is added to Reflex Defense - this represents how hard you are to hit in combat. And this is not ignored by lightsabers. I think they wanted to balance it out so that's why changed previous rules.

In d6 a successful STR roll (with armor)/object resist vs lightsaber can be interpreted as a nick* like:
Vader vs Luke
Vader vs Kenobi
Hitting the ship's door with the tip of a lightsaber
or maybe even dodge:
Getting pass the Sith

*beskar/ energy shield not included.
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[garhkal]

[pakman]

A few things...

1 - what lightsabers (and other weapons) ignore is 100% within the context of the entire rules system.

In d20 (which I played for years) - yes, lightsabers ignored DR - BUT they also did not do a lot of damage. really. they were pretty weak - comparatively - so their ignoring armor DR was not a big deal. (their danger came from bonuses from the skill of the user).

In fact, overall - armor was not very useful in d20, unless you were a very unskilled person (i.e. a stormtrooper) - for most players the only value in armor was if you wanted to mount accessories (sensors, jet pack, etc.).

This is in strong contrast to d6 where lightsabers base damage is already very high, and goes insane with jedi skills.


2 - What we see in movies, while we can take as inspiration for how something works - can ALMOST never be taken directly - as there are often inconsistencies and contradictions and logical issues in how things work (don't get me started on what keeps ships in orbit ...).

Movies are made to be cool and tech is made to facilitate story and plot devices.

SO THEN....
Converting things from D20 (which I played for years) to D6 (which I played for years and am playing now) is very tricky. You have to take into account some of the different philosophies of the systems.

The concept of a critical in d20 does not translate directly (as pointed out earlier in this thread - a crit is rolling a six on the wild die) to D6 - nor does how lightsabers ignore armor DR in d20.

If I had an extreme case where I wanted an advanced skills or enhanced device to have a better chance to do more damage randomly, I would just give +1 on the wild die.
Keep it simple.

If you wanted it to be more effective against armor - just give it a +1 on the wild die against armored opponents. But I would prolly skip it.


just my 2 credits worth - I find we often overcomplicate things.
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[Whill]