Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10474
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:50 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Yora wrote: | | I thought that weird shout-out to Qui-Gon at the very end of Episode 3 was completely pointless |
| garhkal wrote: | | It was kind of a porely thought ret-con, pushed into Ep 3... to some how justify obi-wan having that ability later in Ep 4 (which came first..) |
Prequels are, by definition, supposed to be 'retroactive continuity.'
In the original film Vader was not yet Luke's father (the TESB retcon), but Vader was always a former Jedi. Obi-Wan's disappearance on the Death Star (after a vague and ominous warning about his power if he dies) was surprising to Vader because Vader puts his foot into Obi-Wan's robes, searching. (Luke wasn't surprised when Yoda faded away because he had already seen Obi-Wan disappear.) In ANH Lucas demonstrated that becoming Force ghost was not something that every Jedi knows how about. That always begged an explanation. Why do some Jedi know about it and not others? It only didn't beg an explanation if you erroneously proceeded from the misconception that all Jedi had that power, as the early EU did. (The EU has done a couple Jedi Mind Tricks on fans.)
Many Jedi died in the PT and none of them disappeared. Yoda explained that when people die their individual life force transforms back into the Force. That is the natural order of things. Since the PT had to build into the OT, Lucas was tasked with maintaining the basis for Vader's surprise while addressing how this little known power that Yoda and Obi-Wan will eventually use came to them. In a film that had showed a Jedi massacre but ended in the spirit of hope for the future, it is most dramatic if it is from a Jedi who was thought dead returning.
No, it didn't really have to be Qui-Gon. It could have been Mace Windu, but it had to be someone. Yoda was telling it to Obi-Wan, and it was most dramatic if it is Obi-Wan's master. That does two other things. Since we couldn't see Vader's face in ANH, Obi-Wan's surprise in RotS helps ANH (more than Vader's foot). And it dramatically ties the end of RotS in with the dramatic climax and funeral at the end of TPM. It was not at all pointless.
| Yora wrote: | | I thought that weird shout-out to Qui-Gon at the very end of Episode 3... felt very unnatural. |
See above. Qui-Gon died at the end of TPM, but his return in dialogue was not completely out of the blue in RotS. Qui-Gon's 'Force echo' voice is heard in AotC when Anakin is about to massacre the Tusken village. It immediately cuts to Yoda in medication on Coruscant, showing that it was he who heard Qui-Gon's voice as he felt Anakin's extreme pain across the galaxy. It was as powerfully performed as Sam Jackson and a CGI muppet could possibly emote it. So Qui-Gon's return wasn't unnatural and tacked on. The trilogy was building to that moment.
| Yora wrote: | | Obi-Wan and Yoda both die in a kind of meditative state, while all the Jedi killed in battle did not. That's all the explanation that was required. |
During a lull in the Jedi's battle with Darth Maul (while they are all three separated by the shields), Qui-Gon is shown kneeling down and meditating for a while. After that Qui-Gon did not die in battle. He died of his mortal wound after the battle. Obi-Wan entered a very brief meditative state a second before Vader slice into him (in battle). Yoda and Vader died right after talking to Luke. There is no real common thread here that would visually 'explain' becoming a Force ghost.
If these plot points were lost on anyone, they should rewatch the PT and notice these details. Along the way, they may end up with a slightly better appreciation for the PT. I had thought I'd seen it all regarding PT criticism in the past 23 years, but Qui-Gon being the one who learned how to become a Force ghost is admittedly a new one for me. A much bigger Force ghost concern I've encountered was how did Vader go from a real WTF moment putting his foot in Obi-Wan's empty robes in ANH to becoming a Force ghost himself in RotJ? The PT doesn't suggest an explanation for that either, other than maybe "special case: Chosen One." And that's not nearly as concrete as Vader's foot in the robes.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14293
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
That "No anni" yell from Qui, as Anni is slaughtering the sand people, was very emotional.. And it was cool, seeing Yoda's response to it...
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
