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Naaman
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cheshire
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 Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Well, seeing the # of people IRL< even who LIVE NEAR THE OCEAN or lakes, who still can't swim, it's not surprising some folks feel not everyone should be able to swim.. |
I'd be right there with you if D6 had any "trained only" skills.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | So, it would seem that the question MAY be more nuanced than merely what a skill defaults to, but rather, is their room in the RAW for an interprtation (even an unreasonable one) wherein the skill must be written on the sheet in order to be allowed to default to the attribute? |
Per R&E p.28, no there is no room for even that bad interpretation in RAW. That page addresses both what to do when you don't have the skill, and what the skills listed on the template actually mean. It's explicit. As I speculated above, the only way the bad interpretation is possible is by just looking at templates and making an assumption without reading R&E p.28.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Well, seeing the # of people IRL< even who LIVE NEAR THE OCEAN or lakes, who still can't swim, it's not surprising some folks feel not everyone should be able to swim.. |
I'd be right there with you if D6 had any "trained only" skills. |
It has always been a premise of the game system that skills default to attributes, except for Force skills. SW 2e added advanced skills which explicitly do not default. If a GM wants to house rule that certain normal skills should not default (such as swimming), they could do that.
However, Star Wars is not the real world. For the cinematic game play of SW, I think allowing swimming to default to Strength is fine.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. In a more granular system, it would be a fair ruling. In fact, it might even be something you could take as part of a Advantage/Disadvantage system, where certain skills (like Swimming) can't be used unless you put dice in them. That'd fit for characters who, for example, have lived their entire lives on planets where there's hardly enough water to drink, let alone enough to actually swim in. But the RAW isn't built that way.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the answers, all.
Our GM even pointed out that typically in SW, most characters can attempt to do most things. On Endor, Leia didn't hesitate to jump on a speeder bike. She just jumps on and clearly has no trouble piloting it.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | Thanks for the answers, all.
Our GM even pointed out that typically in SW, most characters can attempt to do most things. On Endor, Leia didn't hesitate to jump on a speeder bike. She just jumps on and clearly has no trouble piloting it. |
Exactly! Most of the tech is so prevalent that everyone has operated most of it by adulthood.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Even Padme flew a starfighter at the beginnig of Ep.II. I would presume that because she is masquerading as the armed escort to a dignitary, she is at least capable of fighting with it (even if just barely).
Anakin can pilot and command a capitol ship well enough to covert a catastrophic failure into a safe (as possible) "happy landing."
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:14 am Post subject: |
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BUT they seemed to grow up around all of those things. What of say, someone on a backwater planet, which has nothing more technical, than a horse drawn cart, who suddenly gets visited by the empire.. Are you really saying, that they should just be able to jump on a speeder bike and fly it, just because they have a 3d mechanical?
Or fire blaster, cause they have a 3d dexterity?
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | BUT they seemed to grow up around all of those things. What of say, someone on a backwater planet, which has nothing more technical, than a horse drawn cart, who suddenly gets visited by the empire.. Are you really saying, that they should just be able to jump on a speeder bike and fly it, just because they have a 3d mechanical?
Or fire blaster, cause they have a 3d dexterity? |
For this game? Yeah, that's kind of how I roll. I have a few other games on my shelf that aim for a different degree of versimilitude.
Is it realistic? Absolutely not. You're spot on with that observation. Is it how I tend to roll when I'm working with a D6 game? Pretty much.
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | BUT they seemed to grow up around all of those things. What of say, someone on a backwater planet, which has nothing more technical, than a horse drawn cart, who suddenly gets visited by the empire.. Are you really saying, that they should just be able to jump on a speeder bike and fly it, just because they have a 3d mechanical?
Or fire blaster, cause they have a 3d dexterity? |
For this game? Yeah, that's kind of how I roll. I have a few other games on my shelf that aim for a different degree of versimilitude.
Is it realistic? Absolutely not. You're spot on with that observation. Is it how I tend to roll when I'm working with a D6 game? Pretty much. |
garhkal, you are really bringing up an another issue, the whole archaic or primitive cultures discussion we've had many times here before. I'm with cheshire but have a caveat. The RAW skill system as designed presumes all characters have at least a basic familiarity with galactic technology and knowledge. Archaic and primitive characters are fairly rare exceptions so RAW works fine for a cinematic reality in most cases.
RAW only somewhat addresses the general issue for primitive Ewok characters (and other species) with special rules forbidding certain skills. But you're right, in RAW they could still roll the base attribute to default for skills, which may seem too unrealistic for some gamers. Since most characters are 'galactic' characters that should be able to default, if a GM doesn't allow it for certain characters based on their background, then they are seriously nerfing a minority of characters for the sake of realism. My solution to not nerf PCs is to not allow fully primitive or archaic PCs. They can still be from that background, but before the campaign begins they had to have spent some time acclimating to galactic society so the attribute defaults, even for 2D Know or Tech, make more sense.
Since I play all NPCs, I don't need special rules for them. NPCs don't need balanced to PCs, so I play NPCs as having access to skills whether they should or shouldn't default for each skill. For PCs, I use attribute default per RAW, and my only caveat is that the PC had some galactic acclimation in their background. It works for me.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with cheshire here. It might not be that realistic, but it totally works for the pulp, action, cinematic feel I'm going for.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | I'm with cheshire here. It might not be that realistic, but it totally works for the pulp, action, cinematic feel I'm going for. |
Agreed. It's also important to remember that PCs as a group are not a representative demographic sample of the galactic population. They are, as a rule, much more experienced and well-versed in galactic society, culture and technology than the norm. Playing a character who doesn't possess a wide range of skills would be the exception, not the rule.
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RyanDarkstar
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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From a roleplaying aspect, I liked in Solo that Qi'ra deferred to Chewbacca as co-pilot since it seemed she lacked piloting or Chewie's skill was much better. Also, in The Force Awakens, Finn needed a pilot which is why he sprung Poe. This is juicy roleplaying stuff as long as the players are okay with penalties or straight up unable to do a particular task or are willing to be trained by NPCs or the other PCs later during their adventures.
If not, they're pulp heroes. Let them do anything they want.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| RyanDarkstar wrote: | From a roleplaying aspect, I liked in Solo that Qi'ra deferred to Chewbacca as co-pilot since it seemed she lacked piloting or Chewie's skill was much better. Also, in The Force Awakens, Finn needed a pilot which is why he sprung Poe. This is juicy roleplaying stuff as long as the players are okay with penalties or straight up unable to do a particular task or are willing to be trained by NPCs or the other PCs later during their adventures.
If not, they're pulp heroes. Let them do anything they want. |
Good point.
I tend to think that if all you have is your base attribute and you know that what you need to do is something heroic, then you better let the character who actually has invested heavily in the skill take the lead.
Being able to try does not in any way presume success using RAW.
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