Capital punishment and PCs...

[Endwyn]

Thanks, the funny stories that play out in my head.........
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Luke, I am your father.
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And Leia is your sister!
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The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
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[Volar the Healer]

[garhkal]

Thread resurrection.
For our new folk (like you shooting wamprats, and crmcneill)..

A) how many planets do you see having a death penalty for XYZ crimes?
B) are those executions public or private?
C) ever had a PC (or group) who did something worthy of it and got caught??
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[lurker]

You know, it is fully you brought this up. I've been thinking about capital punishment in light of the 'social manipulation' thread. Plus, on Monday or Tuesday, I saw a blurb on a WW2 documentary about the forced suicide of General Rommel - for being someone that the conspirators thought would help their cause, not for actively being a conspirator ... That made me think just how the Empire would do similar things ...

To me, actual capital punishment would be more common than we probably think. Look at real life, the vast majority of the world uses capital punishment. The only ones that don't are the more progressive/socialistic countries. However, the next step in following their path almost always leads to hard core communism or fascism - NAZI = National Socialistic etc etc. Those regimes are some of the quickest to use capital punishment.

With that I like Trusty's above break down as a starting point, but may bump the numbers up a little (5 - 10% at most).

As for public vs private, to me this is the dividing line between good/evil (for lack of a better word) governments that use capital punishment. The good country does it all on the up and up, letting everyone see the trial, see the punishment. Also, I would say they would use the most humane method possible to complete the punishment. From that end of the spectrum, as you travel toward the evil end, you will get more secret trials - for the good of society of course - more accidental deaths - for expediency - etc. Then on the farthest evil end of the spectrum you get things like Rome under Sulla - proscription and summery executions in the streets, Nero's ordering of death to people not properly appreciating his artistic ability, Domitian's secret trials, and the list can go on and on up to Hitler and Lenin /Stalin like policies and activities.

Whit that, each planet will be different, plus there will always be the backdrop of the Empire involved. A Planet's government may be on the good end of the spectrum. However, being part of the Empire there could be that hand in the background causing 'accidental' deaths.

For question C ... the group I play is is supporting the Rebellion, soooooo of curse our existence justifies the death sentence from the Empire.



Other than that, (and considering outside this group) I hadn't gamed in 6 years and in SW even longer than that, so no not really. Plus, I am always a 'good guy' so avoid outright murder for fun etc.
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[DougRed4]

What with part of the argument against in the real world being that capital punishment happens much more commonly to minorities, in the SWU it would make sense to have it that aliens (and ones from primitive, backwater worlds at that) tend to be the ones who face it the most.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[lurker]

[Dromdarr_Alark]

Isn't there a list of Imperial crimes and punishments in a sourcebook somewhere? Imperial Sourcebook maybe?

My players are definitely wanted dead by the Empire. I'd say local systems have their own unique judicial systems, while the overrarching Imperial system is more arbitrary and each case depends on the whim of the moff. A lowly officer would have a crime and punishment database to access and must follow it by the book.

I don't think there would be much of a due process for criminals. The officer sees or hears of the crime and immediately administers punishment. Sometimes that punishment is death.
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"I still wouldn't have a roll for it - but that's just how I roll."

[garhkal]

Valid concerns. Heck with social manipulation, and how some cultures regard honor (mostly amongst the aliens) i can see them doing gladiator type matches against long odds to try and prove their innocence. If they fight and win, they are not guilty and go free. If they died, they are guilty but at least died with honor..
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[DougRed4]

Reminds me of the 'Trial by Combat' that they use on Game of Thrones.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[garhkal]

Trial by combat has been around in novels long before Game of thrones.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[DougRed4]

Your mastery of the obvious is really something to behold, garhkal.

I almost originally wrote "or in lots of other books, movies, etc." but decided against it, figuring that it was pretty apparent to most fans of genre fiction.

One of my players, upon reading some of your posts recently, garhkal, commented on what a d!ck you often come across as. I don't know if that's intentional, or if you can't help yourself, but you might want to consider what you say before you hit the 'send' button.
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Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green

[garhkal]

I already know i am tactless. But just cause i may be that way does not make what i say any less worthy of being read.
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Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Zarn]

Capital punishment. Well.

First off, I think that the number of planets having a death penalty is irrelevant. What makes it relevant, is whether the characters are either on a planet that has the death penalty, or is otherwise impacted by it.

Essentially, I think it can be useful to consider five different spheres of influence when it comes to the death penalty: Galactic Republic, Imperial, Rebel Alliance, New Republic, and Independent / Other. We could extrapolate to the old Sith Empire and so on, but let's just assume that anything run by Dark Side Force users is a government structure that plays fast and loose with anything health and safety-related.

Galactic Republic:
With the Galactic Republic, it is unlikely that the death penalty was used in a non-war setting. Essentially the Galactic Republic is a federation where the member states should enjoy quite a lot of autonomy - unless the persons involved had managed to commit high treason or otherwise touch several member planets or sub-governments, it is likely that the Galactic Republic never directly held trials on an individual level. Obviously, in wartime this might change, but in periods of (relative) peace it is unlikely there was much in the way of the death penalty (again, excepting high treason).

Do note that the death penalty might be something that was used in some planetary jurisdictions. Essentially, this would end up being a situation similar to the one discussed under Independent / Other, below.

It is unlikely that the execution of a death penalty (pun unintended, but fitting) would be turned into a public spectacle on the Galactic Republic level. Local laws might vary on this (again, discussed below).

Imperial:
The New Order did use the death penalty, and liberally. There were several factions within the New Order that would execute prisoners, both with and without due process, and with and without public spectacle.

The Sith inside the New Order did more or less what they pleased, as befits a theocracy. Though answerable to their superiors, they could (and did) run rampant throughout the galaxy, executing subjects of the New Order as the fancy struck them.

Though Vader was notorious for doing this (incidentally making his flagship a fast track opportunity for ambitious and reckless officers), one could imagine that the Inquisition would do something similar - and various Grand Admirals, Moffs and Grand Moffs also utilized the death penalty at various times.

Moffs and Grand Moffs would use the death penalty as an intimidation tactic (sometimes grounded in the Tarkin Doctrine), others just to rid themselves from a problem. In the case of using it as an intimidation tactic, the execution itself would be public - otherwise it wouldn't be much of an intimidation tactic.

We know that COMPNOR also had the death penalty available as a tool, if I recall correctly. I suspect that people subject to the death penalty through COMPNOR would have a tendency to just disappear in the night without a trace, making a potent statement as to the power of the semi-secret Imperial thought police.

Possible crimes committed that carried the death penalty for the New Order might be (not complete):

* Killing or maiming a high-ranking New Order official (Sith, Moff, etc)
* Destroying a capital ship
* Destroying a significant Imperial installation
* Smuggling (very) large amounts of controlled substances or equipment
* Fraternizing with known Rebel contacts or operatives
* Whatever the Moff wanted

Rebel Alliance:
The Rebel Alliance would probably use a courts martial and summary execution when necessary when and if they discovered people that had commited treason. It would likely be documented when possible, for instance through an R2 unit's holographic camera, but not publicized as that would run counter to the Rebel Alliance's values.

New Republic:
The New Republic would likely strike some sort of balance between what the Rebel Alliance would do and what the Galactic Republic did. Being neither, and arguably sometimes on a war footing (for instance during the Vong debacle), it might slide towards the New Order way of doing things. It would still be unlikely that the execution itself would be publicized to any great degree - again, if not otherwise then just to differentiate itself from the New Order.

Independent / Other:
Here's when the fun starts. Anything could literally go here. However, it is likely that warrior cultures or cultures on a war footing would use the death penalty, and use public executions at that. In cultures where apparent refinement is more important, it is more likely that people would just disappear, or die in 'accidents'. Depending on who is in the know, this might be a more powerful statement ("Yes, we can still reach you even though you thought you were untouchable") than a public execution.

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Public executions are for controlling the populace. It's to send a message. A private execution is to remove an individual or contain the damage from an individual. A bounty might be warranted, sometimes even after a case has been tried in absentia.

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Have player characters ever done something that warranted the death penalty? Certainly, but they never got identified or caught. Sometimes, there weren't witnesses. Other times, they got a bounty on their heads, which was functionally difficult to distinguish from all the other reasons someone were trying to kill them for. However, the time they got mixed up in some Genoharadan dealings, I had them worried for a loooong time.

[Fallon Kell]

[lurker]