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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I just kind of always assumed that adding the mount or whatever was included in the cost of the weapon.
If not, adding a weapons hardpoint only runs about 1500 credits according to the converted Starships of the Galaxy book, which seems reasonable enough to me.
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Kytross
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Many of the players i've gamed with, would gladly take that deal.. |
These guys are playing the game intelligently. I have never had such a hard time getting people to bite a plot hook. They would rather sit back and run guns for Blastech or Merr-Sonn, increase their coffers and upgrade their gear. I can't really blame them. It's what I do when the GM lets me.
One time, as a player, I broke into the Star Wars equivalent of a pharmacy, looted all the drugs and sold them on the street to make some quick cash. The GM didn't like that. I had 5D in First Aid, and apparently that wasn't enough for me to know which drugs would sell well, like pain killers and tranquilizers. I never forgot that. It taught me that if the players put effort into something they deserve a pay off. Maybe not the pay off they expected, but a pay off.
| Raven wrote: | I just kind of always assumed that adding the mount or whatever was included in the cost of the weapon.
If not, adding a weapons hardpoint only runs about 1500 credits according to the converted Starships of the Galaxy book, which seems reasonable enough to me. |
That sounds reasonable. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14253
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | | The GM didn't like that. I had 5D in First Aid, and apparently that wasn't enough for me to know which drugs would sell well, like pain killers and tranquilizers. I never forgot that. It taught me that if the players put effort into something they deserve a pay off. Maybe not the pay off they expected, but a pay off. |
Well i can understand him. just knowing what the drugs are, does not mean you would know what sells, what their street value would be, or can actually DO any selling. You'd have IMC also needed at least a solid 4d in streetwise, and 4d in value..
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I could see the Streetwise or Value, but not both. Just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1861
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I could see the Streetwise or Value, but not both. Just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping. |
I think both applies.
Value to know the "rate" of the identified meds ( using medicine/first aid)
Then use Streetwise to know where to sell this and where to sell with best chance of profit, less risk of getting caught etc.
I use value+streetwise for anything that is to be sold on the black marked.
Streetwise alone....for all the street things
Value for the rate both open and on black marked.
-This makes a streetweise needed to actually know where to sell this |
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say that streetwise covers all things underground, to include the value of illicit goods, while value only applies to open market, legitimate items/business transactions.
This, of course, assumes we are talking about a base skill application. Specializations can overrule or enhance this. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10455
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | I'd say that streetwise covers all things underground, to include the value of illicit goods, while value only applies to open market, legitimate items/business transactions.
This, of course, assumes we are talking about a base skill application. Specializations can overrule or enhance this. |
I agree with this. I might let a good Value roll include some basic generalities that encompass both legit and illicit knowledge, but specific illicit value-type knowledges are almost always going to be from Streetwise.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | | Raven Redstar wrote: | | I could see the Streetwise or Value, but not both. Just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping. |
I think both applies.
Value to know the "rate" of the identified meds ( using medicine/first aid)
Then use Streetwise to know where to sell this and where to sell with best chance of profit, less risk of getting caught etc.
I use value+streetwise for anything that is to be sold on the black marked.
Streetwise alone....for all the street things
Value for the rate both open and on black marked.
-This makes a streetweise needed to actually know where to sell this |
Exactly. Streetwise is knowing where and how to sell it, value to know what to sell it for.
Just like if one's looking for a legit business to sell / buy stuff from, one needs value and business...
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Kytross
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:25 am Post subject: |
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It didn't matter. He realized halfway through the break in that we were going to get more cash than he wanted us to have.
These GM calls shaped my GM style. I let my players work for what they want. I let them enjoy it. When it gets taken away from them, and it inevitably does, there's a in game reason for it.
Like getting caught smuggling so your ship is impounded. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: | | Raven Redstar wrote: | | I could see the Streetwise or Value, but not both. Just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping. |
I think both applies.
Value to know the "rate" of the identified meds ( using medicine/first aid)
Then use Streetwise to know where to sell this and where to sell with best chance of profit, less risk of getting caught etc.
I use value+streetwise for anything that is to be sold on the black marked.
Streetwise alone....for all the street things
Value for the rate both open and on black marked.
-This makes a streetweise needed to actually know where to sell this |
Exactly. Streetwise is knowing where and how to sell it, value to know what to sell it for.
Just like if one's looking for a legit business to sell / buy stuff from, one needs value and business... |
That's a reasonable interpretation, I think. But, for me, something doesn't quite feel right about using value in this context. Without referencing the rulebook, I feel like a business role would allow for things like understanding the cost of doing business (logistical considerations, competitive market knowledge, even the value of competitors' products vs. the cost of providing a competitive offering). In other words, a savvy businessman can look at an item, see it's construction (what materials, manufacturing process, etc) and have a reasonable idea of what it would cost to make/harvest or whatever and what a typical consumer (or, targeted demographic) might reasonably pay for it.
Whereas I see value as more of an appraisal skill: that necklace is worth 12,000 in the retail market, and therefore, 9,217.36 on the resale market. Then, the bargain skill sticks it's ugly head in and complicates things further. Knowing that the most you should pay for that necklace is 9,217.36, you offer 7,500 to start. Value allowed you to make an offer that is just on the threshold of being insulting, while not immediately repulsing the seller.
In other words, I feel that business allows you to make a profit without having the value skill at all (you know what you spent to get started, so you know what you need to make to turn a reasonable profit). Value lets you know the actual value of things that have nothing to do with your own business.
And after typing all this up, its starting to feel a bit convoluted: Business, value, and bargain all feel like they COULD be one skill. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1861
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: | | Raven Redstar wrote: | | I could see the Streetwise or Value, but not both. Just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping. |
I think both applies.
Value to know the "rate" of the identified meds ( using medicine/first aid)
Then use Streetwise to know where to sell this and where to sell with best chance of profit, less risk of getting caught etc.
I use value+streetwise for anything that is to be sold on the black marked.
Streetwise alone....for all the street things
Value for the rate both open and on black marked.
-This makes a streetweise needed to actually know where to sell this |
Exactly. Streetwise is knowing where and how to sell it, value to know what to sell it for.
Just like if one's looking for a legit business to sell / buy stuff from, one needs value and business... |
That's a reasonable interpretation, I think. But, for me, something doesn't quite feel right about using value in this context. Without referencing the rulebook, I feel like a business role would allow for things like understanding the cost of doing business (logistical considerations, competitive market knowledge, even the value of competitors' products vs. the cost of providing a competitive offering). In other words, a savvy businessman can look at an item, see it's construction (what materials, manufacturing process, etc) and have a reasonable idea of what it would cost to make/harvest or whatever and what a typical consumer (or, targeted demographic) might reasonably pay for it.
Whereas I see value as more of an appraisal skill: that necklace is worth 12,000 in the retail market, and therefore, 9,217.36 on the resale market. Then, the bargain skill sticks it's ugly head in and complicates things further. Knowing that the most you should pay for that necklace is 9,217.36, you offer 7,500 to start. Value allowed you to make an offer that is just on the threshold of being insulting, while not immediately repulsing the seller.
In other words, I feel that business allows you to make a profit without having the value skill at all (you know what you spent to get started, so you know what you need to make to turn a reasonable profit). Value lets you know the actual value of things that have nothing to do with your own business.
And after typing all this up, its starting to feel a bit convoluted: Business, value, and bargain all feel like they COULD be one skill. |
I think business is for that exactly, I can not in any way see how a bookkeeper can value anything......that is why the value skill exist....otherwise all would be put into a "soup" skill under business.
Knowing what something is actually worth is a worthless skill unless you know what to do with the info.
So Lets sell a speeder here just for show.
The Merchant offer me a speeder for 1500 Cr, I roll Value I now see the speeder is worth twice this.
I pay and smile......
The business man here knows how to sell, but not the true value, so he lost without a roll.
Or I can try sell a guy a speeder, he rolls Value and begins to bargain.....using bargain he wins
I now lost the profit above my selling price or not even meeting selling price but settling for 80% etc.
Business Skill to me is actually how to run the business, make a long term profit and what is the cost of companies, rather than goods.
Hence why there is specializations related to running a business.
Bargain, has sepecialities directly related to item value, sort of how to use the result from Value
Bargain- Medical supplies
Bargain- Starfighters.
Theses can and often are the same specislizations as under value.
Streetwise allows for know where and who....bsically in the underworld, and is not related to items.
Streetwise-Blasters sounds silly
Streetwise Coruscant however makes more sense
So to sell the meds you found.
Medical/first Aid to identify them if needed.
Value to determine the open and black market value ( either one, both is 2 rolls)
Streetwise to know where to sell it and to whom
Bargain is the haggle roll, this is trade action.
Business is running a business, not evaluatig anything.....I dare say a person can have 2D value and 12D business and be loaded more than anyone wih 12D value.......
I am rich I have this thing I don't need, it is worth millions but I have zero clue of were to sell it...so it is now worthless junk. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | When it gets taken away from them, and it inevitably does, there's a in game reason for it.
Like getting caught smuggling so your ship is impounded. |
I've seen some players, EVEN WHEN THERE's a reason for it, get royally irked when you take their toys away. Such as impounding ships, restricting weapon/armor choices when they go to planet X, or as happened in one game, the baddie targeted the weapons OF the players, so they would have to close in to melee/brawl range (where he had traps set before hand so they'd trip them getting into range)..
| Quote: | | Business Skill to me is actually how to run the business, make a long term profit and what is the cost of companies, rather than goods. |
Or knowing what sort of business to go to, for various products.
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Kytross
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is way off topic. That's fine with me, my question was answered, and thanks for that you guys, but if some one feels the need to move it to a different forum, go ahead.
As far as losing gear goes, my players know it's a possibility. I also play exclusively with adults now, so everyone has a fully developed cerebral cortex, which tends to cut down on the hissy fits.
But if someone does throw a hissy fit I won't put up with it. You're ruining my night when you do that, over a game. At that point, I'm no longer having fun, the person throwing the fit is no longer having fun, and having a good time is the only reason we're all playing. So why keep playing? |
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