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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14253
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:45 am Post subject: |
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But i am speaking BTB, not HR area..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | But i am speaking BTB, not HR area.. |
Well, sounds like you have a problem to solve, then. Either WEG is right, and B-Wings actually aren't that tough and shields don't stop ion cannon, or WEG is wrong. Personally, I found the SWU much easier to navigate when I accepted that WEG's version of the EU wasn't infallible, and I could change it if needed.
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denderan marajain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 213
Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| My B-wings have a hull of 5D |
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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| denderan marajain wrote: | | My B-wings have a hull of 5D |
Big deal. My B-Wing has a refrigerated cup holder for my Lomin Ale, and a Darth Vader bobblehead. |
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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No fuzzy dice?
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14253
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Na that's in his other ride. an ISD!
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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Na that's in his other ride. an ISD! |
My ISD is a pimped out lowrider named El Cholo with fuzzy dice on the bridge, a sound system that can be heard 4 parsecs away, and crazy mad murals painted on the hull.  |
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Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| My other fighter is a Sun Crusher. |
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness |
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| Whill wrote: | | My impression from the The Star Wars Sourcebook in the 1e days (where these Hull stats came from) was that the X-wing and Y-wing Hulls were higher because they had astromechs that can do in-flight repairs. But they never came out and codified that as far as I remember. |
Does this even make sense (I don't mean your impression, Whill, I mean the 1e view itself)? The benefit of an astromech is already obvious--they can, in fact, conduct in-flight repairs. Therefore, also giving these ships a higher hull represents something already accounted for, or "codified," in the rules. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Not really, though. Yes, there is a Repair skill, but per the RAW, it takes 15 minutes to repair just a Lightly Damaged result. That's 180 combat rounds, which is an eternity in combat.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I've always liked the 2-2-2-2 system for repairs.. First roll represents 2 rounds. if failed and you need a second roll, that represents 2 minutes. Then 2 hours, then 2 days.... and so on.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10455
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | My impression from the The Star Wars Sourcebook in the 1e days (where these Hull stats came from) was that the X-wing and Y-wing Hulls were higher because they had astromechs that can do in-flight repairs. But they never came out and codified that as far as I remember. |
Does this even make sense (I don't mean your impression, Whill, I mean the 1e view itself)? The benefit of an astromech is already obvious--they can, in fact, conduct in-flight repairs. Therefore, also giving these ships a higher hull represents something already accounted for, or "codified," in the rules. |
Yes, that's what I meant, but they just didn't come out as say these Hull codes are higher because of the astromech droids, or codified it as a rule that said that if you are flying these ships without an astromech droid your hull code is -1D. So accounting for the astromech droid in the hull rating of those ships may have been the thought process behind that, but they didn't come out and say that. It seemed odd to me that the 1e Sourcebook had were no Hull codes between 3D and 4D. And I just didn't see that the hulls of X- and Y-wings were a full 1D or more better than A- and B-wings. Xs and Ys are in freighter range hulls.
TIE 2D
A-Wing 2D+2
TIE Interceptor 3D
B-Wing 3D
stock light freighter 4D
X-Wing 4D
Y-Wing 4D+1
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Not really, though. Yes, there is a Repair skill, but per the RAW, it takes 15 minutes to repair just a Lightly Damaged result. That's 180 combat rounds, which is an eternity in combat. |
We're talking about 1e which had a lot less crunch than 2e. Look at astromechs in starfighters in the films. It is totally within the MO of 1e to just add the benefits of "That stabilizer's broken loose, see if you can't lock it down" into the Hull code so not bothering with repair rolls for little things.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness |
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| Whill wrote: | | We're talking about 1e which had a lot less crunch than 2e. Look at astromechs in starfighters in the films. It is totally within the MO of 1e to just add the benefits of "That stabilizer's broken loose, see if you can't lock it down" into the Hull code so not bothering with repair rolls for little things. |
Didn't you say something recently about the default on the forum being 2E / 2R&E, and that 1E discussions should be grouped under the 1E section?
Apart from that, I agree, and that has long been part of my explanation that Hull did not represent just armor plating and superstructure, but was rather an aggregate of all factors that contributed to a ship's ability to resist damage.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Bwing strangeness |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | We're talking about 1e which had a lot less crunch than 2e. Look at astromechs in starfighters in the films. It is totally within the MO of 1e to just add the benefits of "That stabilizer's broken loose, see if you can't lock it down" into the Hull code so not bothering with repair rolls for little things. |
Didn't you say something recently about the default on the forum being 2E / 2R&E, and that 1E discussions should be grouped under the 1E section? |
No, I said that when someone asks a RAW rules question without stating an edition, by default it should be assumed they are asking about R&E. It was said in response to a 1E guru answering a question with the 1e rule when the asker was asking about R&E. But sure, if someone is posting a new thread with a rules question specifically regarding 1e, it should be in the 1e section.
| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | As pointed out over on the Holonet, a Bwing has a LOWER hull than both an Xwing and Ywing, yet is supposed to be a more 'robust' heavy fighter/bomber>
SO has anyone figured out WHY the Bwing has such a low hull? |
My impression from the The Star Wars Sourcebook in the 1e days (where these Hull stats came from) was that the X-wing and Y-wing Hulls were higher because they had astromechs that can do in-flight repairs. |
Here garhkal is asking why the B-wing has a lower hull than the X- and Y-wings, and I think it's a valid question. My answer was addressing his question and pointed out that my impression dated back to the 1e days when the B-wing and X-wing were first statted out. I feel it is possible that whoever first stated the Rebel starfighters had the astromechs in mind when coding the Hull stats, but since it was never stated as a rule that fighters with astromech sockets that do not have the astromech lose 1D (or whatever) off the Hull, the rationale may have been lost when the game system got more crunchy with 2e.
Another simpler explanation may be that the B-wing has 2D in shields when the X-wing only has 1D. But that evens the it out with the X-wing so the B-wing's hull still seems a bit low to me.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Personally, I found the SWU much easier to navigate when I accepted that WEG's version of the EU wasn't infallible, and I could change it if needed. |
So. Apt. For me, the challenge is making changes that don't change the "feel" of the system.
TBH, I do tend to think that the B-Wing should be more on par with the Y-Wing in terms of hull strength. I can live with the A-Wing being less robust if only because it is more agile and faster, and it compensates with jammers (so between those three features, it gets hit less often, if at all). |
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